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Review/comparison for 4 plastic balls

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    Posted: 08/08/2014 at 11:12am
In the recent week(s) I have played with four different plastic balls - all 3-star, all ITTF approved, all made of plastic.

The balls were

a) JOOLA 3-star 40+ (JOO) (bought from JoolaUSA, supplied by a clubmate)
b) DHS 3-star 40+ (DHS) (bought from the_theologian)
c) DoubleFish 3-star 40+ (DBF) (same)
d) XuShaoFa 3-star 40+ (XSF) (same)

All balls were absolutely brand new.

Players: they were tested by three groups of players. First, me and my clubmate - both are control-oriented allround offensive players at around 2000 USATT level, who mix looping, placement shots, slow spin and sometimes power loops, blocking and flat-hitting etc. Everything goes, although without excessive physical strength to our shots. Second, two 1500-level players who play slower, flatter game, almost no looping but with some spin. Third, two 2100-2200 level two-wing attackers.

Here is my short impressions:

Construction: only XSF ball is seamless, other three are seamed. XSF ball is non-transparent, you cannot push your finger into it as you can do with celluloid balls

Weight: DHS = DBF > JOO > XSF > CELL

Speed: DHS = DBF < JOO < XSF = CELL

Spin: DHS = DBF = JOO < XSF < CELL

Angle: on average, certainly lower than regular balls. XSF perhaps the closest to the celluloid in that regard.

Sound: DHS and DBF sound almost like regular 40mm balls, JOO is a bit louder with some tinny undertones, XSF has the most unnerving "cracked" sound

Bounce: JOO was most uncomfortable and unfortunately inconsistent. JOO, DHS and DBF bounced less and a bit slower, therefore players often missed the balls altogether. As a consequence, serves took a while to adjust to, many of them went into the net.

Longevity, sturdiness: DHS ball broke (!) 12 (twelve!) minutes into practice. And we are not heavy hitters, mind you. JOO got cracked during next day practice... overall perhaps 1-2 hours of play. DBF ball has about one hour on it, seems OK. XSF ball seems the sturdiest of them all.

Overall impressions:

JOO as the most uncomfortable to play with, everything was very much off, whiffing the ball all the time, rhythm of the bounce was very inconsistent

DHS and DBF balls seemed more or less consistent, almost identical in behavior, with DBF ball being a tiny bit better. Of course, lower and slower bounce took a while to adjust to, but after we played a couple of matches, we got better. They are more or less playable, I think.

XSF ball was deemed the best of them all - it is closest in speed and spin to celluloid, seems very sturdy, doesn't feel heavier (although my guess is that feeling of heaviness for other balls might be somehow connected with their lower speed; brain tries to account for that drop in speed by creating a "feeling" of heavier ball; I wouldn't be surprised to find out that XSF weighs the same as other three). "Cracked" tinny sound is the only drawback, but my guess is that it is related to the seamlessness and it's not something that the manufacturers will be able to get rid of. We'll see.

=======

I should add the group 2 didn't see much difference in the balls at all. They saw that the balls were a tad slower but that didn't affect their game much and they said they could easily adjust and play with the new balls.

There might be more follow-up from group 3 later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/08/2014 at 12:32pm
How did you determine weight?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/08/2014 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

How did you determine weight?


I didn't, really, not by any technical means. It was purely by impression - not just mine, but all the testers. That's why I said I wouldn't be surprised if all these balls were on average same weight.

I also suspect it is rather pointless to weigh just one ball per brand. You would have to take like a hundred more or less random XYZ balls and average their weight to get any statistically meaningful number, so that then you claim that XYZ balls are "a bit heavier" than ABC balls, or some such.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/08/2014 at 3:00pm
Did any balls have the same curve or magnus effect as the 40C?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/08/2014 at 3:02pm
The reason I mentioned this is that a set of Joola 40+ balls that felt heavier than celluloid when I played with them were actually the same weight (measured in my lab).  It is an interesting thing, everybody who hit with them thought they were heavier.  I think it may be because you have to swing harder to get pace and spin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/08/2014 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

The reason I mentioned this is that a set of Joola 40+ balls that felt heavier than celluloid when I played with them were actually the same weight (measured in my lab).  It is an interesting thing, everybody who hit with them thought they were heavier.  I think it may be because you have to swing harder to get pace and spin.


Yes, I also think that is a "fake" feeling due to the speed/spin change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 11:51am
An addendum:

I just had a chance to play with brand-new Kinson 3-star 40+ ball. Yeah, I know - KinsonDisapprove

I had no  idea there even made 3-star balls... apparently at some point they even made decent rubbers, but lately they only produced mass-production wide-public-type-ish tt equipment, not something that advanced amateurs like us would use.

Anyway, so far this is THE BEST PLASTIC BALL I have tested. No kidding. Yes it is a tiny bit slower; yes it has a tiny bit less spin, but it plays, sounds and bounces the same as good quality celluloid balls. After 3 minutes I stooped thinking that I am playing with a plastic ball, and after 15 minutes reluctantly returned it to the owner.

If you have a chance to buy a couple of test them, do it - they are quite worthy. Made in China of course, and I bet they are NOT a product of some super-duper amazing space technology. That actually gives me hope that in less than a year all other brands will catch up and their plastic balls will be very playable and not very distinguishable from our old trusty celluloid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 12:45pm
Where did you buy the Kinson 40+?  

I found them on a site called saletabletennis.com, but I haven't heard of it before so hesitate to buy there.  Does anybody know this store?

Also they have a 72-pack of Kinson 1* 40+ training balls, which is the first plastic bulk pack I have seen.  Wonder what the quality/consistency of the 1*s is?    


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 2:08pm
seamless?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 2:13pm
Are the Kinson 3* 40+ seamed?

I wonder about the new batches that are appearing. Do you think the smaller brands are having only their balls manufactured recently, and so they are taking advantage of any improvements to the processing? Jim - can you find the manufacturing date code on the Kinson box?

Our better players have been sinking some time into the Joola 40+ seamed in our club before the first national GP tournament this weekend. Their opinion is very much "meh" about it all, and there's nothing new to say about them that hasn't been said before.   (I think this particular GP is actually using Stag poly balls, but no one has even seen those yet). They were also playing British League last weekend, which is still celluloid. People resent the chopping and changing more than the change itself. If they have to put up with considerable differences between different approved poly balls in the future (seamless vs seamed, for example), I doubt that they will be impressed.

Something interesting is the vid that Joola USA posted:



These are "iPong" 40+ balls, which are seamless. So Joola are basically going to be offering seamed AND seamless balls, in effect.
This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 4:46pm
KINSON IS DF WITH A DIFFERENT STAMP.

For all good evidences. all the KINSON 40+ (seamed Balls) originated from china's Guangzhou Double Fish ball plant.. which is clearly seen from the identity of textual annotations on kinson and DF boxes..
.
Good quality, agreeable PRICE. I liked DF products over other brands.
IttF did a heavy mistake, they should have partnered with DF manufacturer, NOT with d-happinesss.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 6:53pm
I am curious too.  Most of the seamed balls I have seen have been marked XF meaning they were made in June, and the manufacturers should be embarrassed by them.  But maybe the more recently made ones are better?  So far the problems with all seamed balls are very low bounce and bad durability.

Seamless balls do not have these problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 8:06pm
for those who have not tried the Nexy polyball i think it's one of the best seamless polyball in the market right now and it's durable plus doesn't feel like plastic. it doesn't feel too hard either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 8:48pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

seamless?


seamed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 8:51pm
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Are the Kinson 3* 40+ seamed?

I wonder about the new batches that are appearing. Do you think the smaller brands are having only their balls manufactured recently, and so they are taking advantage of any improvements to the processing? Jim - can you find the manufacturing date code on the Kinson box?

Our better players have been sinking some time into the Joola 40+ seamed in our club before the first national GP tournament this weekend. Their opinion is very much "meh" about it all, and there's nothing new to say about them that hasn't been said before.   (I think this particular GP is actually using Stag poly balls, but no one has even seen those yet). They were also playing British League last weekend, which is still celluloid. People resent the chopping and changing more than the change itself. If they have to put up with considerable differences between different approved poly balls in the future (seamless vs seamed, for example), I doubt that they will be impressed.


I will ask our coach if he has a Kinson box - those are his balls.

As for Joola Super-P - yes, I agree, they are worse than "meh".

Kinson might be made at DF factory but they are clearly different from DoubleFish 40+ *** balls I tested just a few weeks ago. They are better than DF in my humble opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 10:43pm
Date of production for Kinson ball may tell us if the seamed balls are starting to get better.  They certainly only had one direction to go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2014 at 12:06pm
Sometimes some mistake weight for stiffness or compression of the ball.   Next time you feel a ball is lighter or heavier than another.....press your thumb into it gently to see this difference. 

 
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