|
|
L>Forehand Loop critique |
Post Reply |
Author | |
YoungN
Beginner Joined: 01/30/2014 Location: Nashville, TN Status: Offline Points: 6 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 02/16/2015 at 12:14am |
Here's a video of my forehand loop. I'd really appreciate any feedback on my stroke mechanics and what I should work on for improving my efficiency in terms of power, consistency, and spin. Thanks guys.
http://youtu.be/qbzyZR0ETTo |
|
Sponsored Links | |
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
It is a brave guy who sincerely wants to get better who posts a video. Kudos to you!!!!
The basic stroke is there, which is good, but it's hard to say much more than that from this video because I don't think it shows the way you would most likely hit it in free play. Try to relax a bit. You are It would be a lot more informative from a "diagnostic" perspective if you posted video showing your loop when you to move a bit to get to the ball or didn't know exactly where it is coming. Then you might get more informative suggestions about things that will really help you. |
|
YoungN
Beginner Joined: 01/30/2014 Location: Nashville, TN Status: Offline Points: 6 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
You're definitely correct about being looser and more fluid. Do you think I get enough rotation from the waist and enough upward force off the right leg?
|
|
zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I like videos that don't show the feeder. It looks like you were fed one backspin and one topspin. If that happens to be the case, then first thing I'd do is go back to one type of feeding and work on getting the touch right.
|
|
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
|
ThePongProfessor
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/17/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1528 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Looks pretty good. If I were you, I would move my right foot a little backward (~1 foot) for more efficient transfer of momentum from back-to-front and turn a little more into the ball. Currently, your legs to most of the looping. And yes, relax more and engage your wrist.
|
|
Brett Clarke
Super Member Joined: 10/05/2014 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 173 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Great stuff YoungN! I really like the fact that you posted a video. It would be great to see a front on view if you have one. From the back would be good too. I think your swing is good, though I'm struggling as I lose a little perspective when seeing a swing from the side. As mentioned above (Baal), you're arm is quite stiff and you get very little whip action as a result. Your leg's could be further apart and bent more and you could be leaning forward more. You shouldn't dip your right shoulder or use your legs to come up. I would be starting low and staying low. Pushing up off your right leg isn't how to get power, unless you are aiming for the roof above you. It is also bad for recovery. It is about staying down low with good rotation. These comments are in no way meant to be negative and I like your forehand already and courage for posting footage of the stroke. If you post a front on video, I'd be happy to help, if I can. Cheers, Brett |
|
Table Tennis Videos by Brett Clarke
|
|
yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7220 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
snap or flex your elbow during follow through of the stroke or end of the stroke. your elbow should be pointing diagonally towards the back and not downwards. it's the reason why your stroke is a bit stiff.
|
|
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS
ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
|
blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
agree with yogibear, elbow should be brought back as part of the stroke, it shouldn't be locked in place. Look at Zhang Jike's FH, I think he does this very well. Those bouncing feet are awesome!
|
|
-------
Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
|
YoungN
Beginner Joined: 01/30/2014 Location: Nashville, TN Status: Offline Points: 6 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thanks for all the feedback guys!
|
|
heavyspin
Gold Member Joined: 08/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1534 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The weight transfer is good, however I prefer a more angled stance to the table since a ball to your right hip is more difficult to position oneself for a loop with your stance. I also think your stroke may get smoother if you focus more on a quicker recovery after the stroke.
|
|
My serves are like potato skins at TGI Fridays - they're loaded.
|
|
BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I'll say it up front, the joker who says THE correct FH topspin is a joker. There is no ONE correct FH topspin, there are many EFFECTIVE FH topspins that will vary upon the athlete's preferences and abilities.
My former coach in Korea was a former K-League Pro chopper. Her opening FH topspin, you look at it and you would think it is too tame. Yet, she rarely missed and the shot did what she wanted it to do, change from defense to attack. So, she had an effective FH.
Having said all that, I think you are losing a LOT of possible power, spin and some landing percentage by doing your opening topspin the way you are.
What I say below is focused on letting you know what is happening that is preventing you from making more effective power without all the effort.
The LOSS of your potential power is your body is totally locked up from knees on up to shoulders to wrist in your stroke. Look at your vid a few times and you'll see. This is stopping you from generating a whipping action that will result in a transfer of weight and energy through your core and you use arm and wrist snap to finish all that explosion off. You are losing acceleration since you keep your hips and core and shoulders and arm locked together moving at the same time all locked and joined up. If you got a strong core, you can get away with this and still land that shot a decent percentage, but the ball will be weak. You keep hitting like this, it might get really ingrained and difficult to correct later.
Your stance is somewhat BH oriented and you could use your hips a lot easier if you open up your stance by moving your right leg behind you at least 8-12 inches than what you do now. When you have a stance that is not open, the FH becomes cramped and it is difficult to get the legs and hips to generate the full potential of power than you can by a slightly more open stance.
There is a certain efficient "Timing" of the use of the muscles and how to get them to work together to accelerate the bat by impact. I use the word "Explosion" a lot and it is a useful term. You are making an explosion of power. You are "Exploding" through the ball in your strike zone. Right now, you are "Gliding" and "Guiding" through the zone.
The legs and wide stance provide a base for you to start with legs and use hip rotation to transfer the energy through your core up to your shoulder, the shoulders carry it more with some turning, then a tiny bit of upper arm, your lower arm moves forward for the "Arm Snap" and finally the wrist adds the final "Wrist Snap" to the equation resulting in a very fast bat speed proportionate to what it is looking like you are doing.
There has to be sequence of movement and timing of all the muscles or it will not result in a whipping action that gives you the effortless power and control.
Now that I said all that, it isn't like you are gunna correct all that right now in one session trying to get it right at combat speed. There is some progression involved. No one develops a great FH topspin form over night.
I go back to the mirror thing to get you to be aware of what you are doing. Go super slow motion in front of the mirror thinking about how you start your power. You are starting it OK enough (but your stance could use some opening up) but instead of letting the upper body and shoulder rotate after starting with your legs and waist, you are still trying to add momentum with the waist and by that time, the upper body should be moving more than the waist to add to the power. Then the lower arm should be receiving this power and adding it to the stroke and right at impact the wrist is adding its final say.
Take your time and see yourself in the mirror and see yourself different by adding each component in slow mo. When you got the sequence right, do it ever so slightly faster. Keep upping the pace in small increments until you are doing a 60-70% power shot. This is your basic opening FH topspin power. You will not get there in one day so don't get all bent out of shape if it takes time to get the timing of it. It took me a very long time to correct anything I did (and still do) wrong in TT.
|
|
Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
|
Lestat
Super Member Joined: 01/16/2012 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 421 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Apart from the stiffness problem, you also seem to have locked in the current stroke. The key to developing a stroke is making constant small adjustments, you are in effect looking for it. You don't lock in on a stroke unless it's QUALITY.
You've got some good advise from posters above so keep at it. Don't obsess about perfect (CNT) form at the moment, explore a bit more - within the realm of basic good stroke mechanics of course. You are still at that stage where you're working to develop feel. Be patient, it's a long journey! Even when you just about honed in a good stroke, there is that b**tard called timing!
|
|
V-Griper
Silver Member Joined: 09/19/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 879 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Generally pretty good.
-Elbow is tucked in too tight to your hip/torso, I would let it float out away from your torso a little more. -Biggest issue that I can see is your balance. This is also affecting your ability to generate more power as your CG is too far back when executing your stroke. Basically you are almost leaning backward at the end of your take back. Your torso is twisted a little to much to the right to the degree that your left shoulder goes past your right knee during your back swing. If someone were to lightly push you backward at that point it would take very little force to cause you to fall backward. This is mostly due to what others have said about your stance being to square or parallel to the table. The solution is what others have said, move your right foot back such that your torso is facing diagonally to the right or roughly 45 degrees to the back line. Your CG shift should generally be from the back right foot towards the slightly forward left foot along a diagonal. Others refer to this a weight shift. The above issue with your elbow may be resolved with this correction. -I think you should concentrate on getting a good quality spin on your shot first before adding power. To me that means waiting for the ball to fall a little more and swinging slower initially. The ball should "jump" when it hits the other side of the table. Forehand sample- ML FH is similar to the way you are stroking the ball. If you are actively trying to copy his mechanic then be careful not to over rotate the upper torso/shoulders. Note that from the side it looks very similar to yours and he does not have his right foot back but that is because hes reaching forward to get the ball but it is a good example of a good quality spin loop. Also note that he does not rotate his upper torso as far as you do. Here is a more normal shot where you can see his right foot is back. Edited by V-Griper - 02/16/2015 at 5:45pm |
|
DHS 301
Xiom Vega 7pro FH/BH |
|
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I like this comment. When you obsess over perfect form, it is hard to be relaxed and you actually have to learn to be relaxed when you play. Not so much that you are floppy, but precision relaxation. It is almost a zen idea. (Actually it was expressed pretty clearly by the zen master Takuan Zoho to his student, the great swordmaster samurai Yagyu Munenori, in a book called "The Unfettered Mind", a great read for people trying to get really good at table tennis. In it he basically says if you put your mind in your right arm your mind will be taken over by your right arm. Put it on your leg, it will be taken over by your leg, etc. etc. Your mind needs to be nowhere and then it will be everywhere. ) |
|
YoungN
Beginner Joined: 01/30/2014 Location: Nashville, TN Status: Offline Points: 6 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thanks BH-Man your feedback was very extensive and helpful for me!
|
|
hookumsnivy
Gold Member Joined: 11/04/2010 Location: Syracuse, NY Status: Offline Points: 1599 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
There's a great video by Brett Clarke that demonstrates it in such a way that I found to be very helpful: It's such a simple explanation, but it makes perfect sense - it starts with the lower half, and finishes with the top half creating a whip effect. Somehow I lost my stroke this past Sunday. I just couldn't loop correctly and I didn't want to chalk it up to just one of those days. I was talking to my practice partner about it and he mentioned the above video - along w/ the Golf Club video. I figured it was worth a shot and we started practicing it. I relaxed everything, and started swinging less and less with my arm and more with my body. It was like night and day. I've hit a few hundred balls after making the adjustment and it just feels right. As an added bonus, I don't get tired as quickly because it requires less effort (no tense muscles) and produces a higher quality ball. I don't feel like I'm swinging hard. As BH-Man mentioned, these changes don't come overnight, but they are worth it. I hope a few thousand more strokes will get it in muscle memory. |
|
zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Stuffed animal cruelty.
|
|
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
|
Post Reply | |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer
MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd. |