Anyone want to improve their stroke in 10secs?

Actually, the thread is more empirical in nature than the generalization you provide. I think you misconstrued the level of player the thread is directed at.

AgentHEX wrote: Most players tend to take shots that come more easily, and by definition FH/BH grips produce favorable angle for their respective sides, it would be difficult to argue otherwise.

illinichamps wrote: Hi everyone.. I just saw this clip yesterday and tried out this new grip.. It was slightly different from the one that my coach taught me, but when I tried it yesterday it improved (for me) the quality of both my bh and fh strokes. @.53 he is talking about the difference between the fh and bh grips. @1.20 (The most important tip I think) He puts his thumb on the slant of the paddle. @1.30 (Another amazing tip) He puts the bottom of the handle as close to the thumb as possible. You should have a small hole in between the three fingers and the handle. @1.40 He is saying that holding it too tight is not good for your strokes. @2.21 He is saying that your pinky should be firm to finish the overall grip. @2.33 He is showing the bh grip that you can easily do with this grip. @2.53 is the fh grip (Also he says the hand should be loose. Which all of us should know.) After that is talking about wrist action during a loop.. for those interested i can translate later. But to sum up what he says is that when you cock back your wrist for the loop, you don't need to purposely use the wrist when hitting the loop. If you just cock it back and follow through correctly your wrist will naturally be released (therefore letting you use the wrist). Purposely using your wrist can mess with your timing and quality of shot.. Hope this helps.. I know it won't be for everyone, and i still have to get use to it but for me I am very happy I got to see this video. Improved my game a lot for the 6mins i saw this video.. cheers..

AgentHEX wrote: I suspect a decent portion of good players don't really think these nuances of grip through. A more empirical approach would be to measure the angles exactly, but I don't think it's necessary to get the gist of the point across. The OP grip is good advice for those learning to swing w/ some power or need more adjustment without going full Timo.

Edited by NextLevel - 03/18/2015 at 12:08am

AgentHEX wrote: In terms of tension the OP grip offers better alignment of the racket mass with the "spine" of the swing, so less force is necessary to adjust and hold blade angle, esp if it deviates from the angle of attack. A racket mass perfectly in line with the abstracted whip of the motion requires nearly zero force/torque other than to hold on so it doesn't fly out. The reason for relatively less flexibility w/ neutral grip chocked up in the thumb/index gap is pretty obvious so I'll let you figure it out. Consider the same gap can be quite open w/ the OP grip which allows the easy fh/bh adjustment. I have nearly zero tension in the entire limb on a good swing. Having watched pieces of Ben's video it's all stuff I've considered fairly early on, and there's been further subsequent deliberation.

Edited by NextLevel - 03/18/2015 at 8:50am

wturber wrote: Yes, it would be nice to get a full translation.   As it is, I have been putting my thumb on the slant for a while.  Essentially, I hold the racket with my thumb, forefinger and palm pad of my forefinger.  I allow the racket to pivot around that slanted part of the handle.  The other three fingers don't really hold the racket so much as they locate/limit the racket angle. I'm starting to develop a feel for my backhand that seems similar to the point about cocking the wrist eliminates the need to think about stroking with the wrist.

Edited by NextLevel - 03/18/2015 at 9:11am

Yes...

I too have been blessed with big hands...

> Again, holding less of the head of the blade requires more fingers to control the blade, and anything that requires more fingers to control the blade will require more muscles in the arm to control.  The grip that Ben is advocating allows you to pretty much use the thumb and index finger as lightly or as tightly as you like but this is developed over time.This is a complete misunderstanding of how these grips work. In the OP grip, the handle can rest against the fingers in a topspin stroke, and require no additional tension to remain in place unlike the choked neutral grip where the angle of the force applied by the thumb and index finger is unfavorable for friction. Also, even assuming equal force necessary, the total expended by the said muscles is conserved and a greater sharing of burden means less for each (ie easier).

This is a pointless argument because you believe you understand something you don't even begin to.

AgentHEX wrote: This is a complete misunderstanding of how these grips work. In the OP grip, the handle can rest against the fingers in a topspin stroke, and require no additional tension to remain in place unlike the choked neutral grip where the angle of the force applied by the thumb and index finger is unfavorable for friction. Also, even assuming equal force necessary, the total expended by the said muscles is conserved and a greater sharing of burden means less for each (ie easier). This is a pointless argument because you believe you understand something you don't even begin to.

NextLevel wrote: AgentHEX wrote: This is a complete misunderstanding of how these grips work. In the OP grip, the handle can rest against the fingers in a topspin stroke, and require no additional tension to remain in place unlike the choked neutral grip where the angle of the force applied by the thumb and index finger is unfavorable for friction. Also, even assuming equal force necessary, the total expended by the said muscles is conserved and a greater sharing of burden means less for each (ie easier). This is a pointless argument because you believe you understand something you don't even begin to.   My explanation at least can be followed, and I am sure it is correct.  Yours as written is largely soliloquy.

Sure, an explanation which uses some technical terms is harder to understand.

The obvious key idea is here is net energy expended, and in short the OP grip minimizes its use for SH at nearly every opportunity.

There's a certain deterministic path of the swing and resulting deterministic torque/force on the hand applied by the racket. The "tension" you speak of is thus best considered by determining distribution of that load. Unfortunately some grasp of the physical concepts is necessary to understand what is being conveyed here; they're not difficult but some willing effort is useful.


Edited by AgentHEX - 03/18/2015 at 5:20pm

AgentHEX wrote: > A. it is more advantageous to use it with a st handle than a fl one The OP grip is best done by resting the end of the handle against/near the base of the hand. A flared curve there helps locate this point which can be used as an easy+stable pivot for the fh/bh grip change (no regripping necessary as demonstrated in OP vid), and ostensibly part of why they were made in the first place. It's not an accident the properties of the FL handle (eg slant+flare positions) fit the requirement of the OP grip perfectly; a designer a while back was pretty smart.

This topic hits close to home for me.