The best new long pimple?

Curl P1-r is king when it comes purely for heavy SPIN on chops and Grass D.tecs is king when it comes purely for high SPEED on chops. Make your decision through that.

difirent between p4 and p1-r and grass are big ?

JohnnyChop wrote: GeneralSpecific wrote: Curl P1-r is king when it comes purely for heavy SPIN on chops and Grass D.tecs is king when it comes purely for high SPEED on chops. Make your decision through that. i get the heavy spin part but could you elaborate on the speed part?

Well, for many high level defenders, heavy spin on chops isn't always ideal. Take a player like Joo Saehyuk for example. Of course he's capable of producing every variety of chops under the sun but for the most part, his primary chop is a more "offensive" chop. These chops are executed as fast as possible in an effort to prevent the opponent from having enough time to attack, have less time to read the exact amount of spin on the ball, and to create a pop up if the opponent tries push this chop.

Both Curl P1-r and Grass D.tecs are very versatile rubbers and are capable of doing every kind of chop. Though in the case of D.tecs, it's just a flat out faster rubber. This is especially the case because it has a tensor sponge.

D.tecs with a 1.6mm sponge has been referred to as "The Beast" for this reason. Like I said, both rubbers are excellent chopping weapons. If you want easier variety, easier ability for high spin on chops, and overall more control, go for Curl P1-r. If you want a faster and more "powerful" chop and faster attacking capability close to the table, as long as you recognize this will be harder to control, go for Grass D.tecs.

In my opinion, Curl P1-r is the better choice for chopping for most people. If you happen to be in the ITTF top 200, either one can work. This is a bit of an exaggeration/generality but I say it to make my point more clear.

bbkon wrote: i think dtects is no longer dangerous with the new ball as posted by pushblocker

Close to the table pushblocking with long pips and no sponge is a very different game than mid-long distance chopping with a thick sponge. I'm sure he's totally right that the new ball hurts a pushblocking style a lot. However, everything I said still applies to a sponged long pip chopping game.

GeneralSpecific wrote: JohnnyChop wrote: GeneralSpecific wrote: Curl P1-r is king when it comes purely for heavy SPIN on chops and Grass D.tecs is king when it comes purely for high SPEED on chops. Make your decision through that. i get the heavy spin part but could you elaborate on the speed part?  Well, for many high level defenders, heavy spin on chops isn't always ideal. Take a player like Joo Saehyuk for example. Of course he's capable of producing every variety of chops under the sun but for the most part, his primary chop is a more "offensive" chop. These chops are executed as fast as possible in an effort to prevent the opponent from having enough time to attack, have less time to read the exact amount of spin on the ball, and to create a pop up if the opponent tries push this chop. Both Curl P1-r and Grass D.tecs are very versatile rubbers and are capable of doing every kind of chop. Though in the case of D.tecs, it's just a flat out faster rubber. This is especially the case because it has a tensor sponge. D.tecs with a 1.6mm sponge has been referred to as "The Beast" for this reason. Like I said, both rubbers are excellent chopping weapons. If you want easier variety, easier ability for high spin on chops, and overall more control, go for Curl P1-r. If you want a faster and more "powerful" chop and faster attacking capability close to the table, as long as you recognize this will be harder to control, go for Grass D.tecs. In my opinion, Curl P1-r is the better choice for chopping for most people. If you happen to be in the ITTF top 200, either one can work. This is a bit of an exaggeration/generality but I say it to make my point more clear.

This man knows his stuff. Joo Sae Hyuk said he bases his backhand rubber , based on the table.

AgentHEX wrote: Also D.tecs doesn't come in anything thinner than 1.2

> That is incorrect, it now also comes in 0.5 and 0.9.

Where would you get it? Not available at Tabletennis11 or any of the foreign outlets, and all "out-of-stock" at paddlepalace (I suspect they never had any).

> Combine those various techniques in chopping with a rubber more suited for one or the other and it becomes apparent.

The trickery isn't from speed, it's from off-speed messing with opponent timing. It's harder to reduce speed on chops than add speed so unless someone is already at high level (how many high level defenders are there here?) it's misleading to give advice only applicable there.


Edited by AgentHEX - 03/04/2015 at 5:13pm

AgentHEX wrote: > ... It's harder to reduce speed on chops than add speed so unless someone is already at high level (how many high level defenders are there here?) it's misleading to give advice only applicable there.

wturber wrote: AgentHEX wrote: > ... It's harder to reduce speed on chops than add speed so unless someone is already at high level (how many high level defenders are there here?) it's misleading to give advice only applicable there. It isn't misleading at all given that his post clearly referred to top 200 type of players and closed by with another comment that the slower rubber would be the rubber of choice for the vast majority of regular players.   If you really want to take issue, you might argue the relevance.  But the post wasn't misleading at all.

Sure, with statements like:

> Like I said, both rubbers are excellent chopping weapons. If you want easier variety, easier ability for high spin on chops, and overall more control, go for Curl P1-r.

Which is in any case puzzling given OP wants more spin and both P1-r and esp. D.tecs are less grip than P4.

An aside but nonetheless important point--most people reading these forums for equipment advice aren't even upper club level nevermind anywhere near top 200, and tend to take it as one-size-fits-all or at least something they can grow into.

I'm been PMed before by those seek specific advice and they invariably conclude after trying more controllable gear that most forum recommendations are wholly unsuitable for those who come across these topics in search for assistance.

> It seems it is you that hasn't contributed anything useful to this discussion Agenthex

Everyone can figure for themselves whether advice for world top-200 or something more suitable for those not quite there is more useful to this discussion.

I don't know for modern defense but I do like Spinlord Sternenfall for blocking. I still prefer Giant Dragon Dragon Talon, but Sternenfall is great, especially for those blockers who like to attack. Great for attacking.

This is my game : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htulT4gn5UI

AgentHEX wrote: Sure, with statements like: > Like I said, both rubbers are excellent chopping weapons. If you want easier variety, easier ability for high spin on chops, and overall more control, go for Curl P1-r.

(Jay)  I play hardbat.  I'm the poster child for advocating controllable (and inexpensive) gear.

I'm also a poster child for advocating controllable, inexpensive, and in addition undoctorable gear (no boosters, tuners, speed glue, denser tensor, no epoxidized pips, no nuthin' [well, maybe a cloth backing]).  And we know, though blush to admit it, what that means, subject to ITTF approval except in events where ITTF approval is not necessary.

Madridwalker wrote: So .. i don't know what i should buy: Anyone play spike p1 ?

Palio CK531A is great for blocking and attack .. Inexpensive too !

Edited by LUCKYLOOP - 03/05/2015 at 2:34pm