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Could you estimate ratings of these guys |
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The soul of rock
Silver Member Joined: 03/11/2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 626 |
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Posted: 03/13/2015 at 3:36pm |
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Recently I lost really bad to Scott Barton and that makes me wonder what his USATT rating would be if he plays in the US. Could you please estimate ratings of these guys? Cheers
Edited by The soul of rock - 03/13/2015 at 3:36pm |
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cmetsbeltran15
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probably firmly around 2400
Edited by cmetsbeltran15 - 03/13/2015 at 4:21pm |
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The soul of rock
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Well, Colin is ranked 8th in Scotland and the best Scottish player, Gavin Rumgay, has higher ITTF rating than Tim Wang, so I highly doubt Colin's USATT rating would be that low if he has one.
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cmetsbeltran15
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No correlation between the ratings of the 1st and 8th best players in two countries of such varying sizes like USA and Scotland. Canada in recent years for example has a very strong top 10 or so, then it falls off MASSIVELY after that. In any event, I would've guessed closer to the 2400 range anyways, but I stand by my statement that most 2500s could exploit the technical flaws with his loop technique. edit: The righty seemed clearly better than the lefty to me, my point was that the lefty could be as low as 2200.
Edited by cmetsbeltran15 - 03/13/2015 at 4:25pm |
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The soul of rock
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I agree that there is no real correlation, but I don't think they are that far off. But I'm not in their level, so may be you're right. Btw, I am really interested to see how you would rate these two guys
https://youtu.be/NMcqGTTgUPk |
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cmetsbeltran15
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2700+
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davidz
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2600+
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Pondus
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What are the technical flaws that could be so readily exploited? |
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The soul of rock
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For the second clip, the guy in blue was ranked around 110 in the world at that time, beat Chritophe Legout in the Olympic and lost in a good match against Smirnov, who was in the top 25 at that time, in the 3rd round of the Olympic 2008, fyi. I guess I can take cmetsbeltran15 words now, but I would really appreciate to see what are the techincal flaws of Colin and Scott so may be I could do better against them next time we meet
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cmetsbeltran15
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edit again: I still think the righty is at least one solid level better than the lefty, so this could just be a result of having more time to react, can't judge his entire game on that.
Edited by cmetsbeltran15 - 03/02/2016 at 9:18am |
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cmetsbeltran15
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I think youre getting caught up in the wording, I should have prefaced all of this by saying NOBODY can really conclude much from a two minute highlight video, when anybody is in the drivers seat in the match they'll result to some greedy technique that they usually wouldn't do against someone of their level or higher.
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smackman
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we all look good in the highlights, and people can give you a rough estimate from players they know or have seen playing real competitions in big events in American Cities
If I said 2500 and someone said 2200 what would it matter and what would it mean? but saying one of these players is number 8 in Scotland to me means he is a high level competent player who has been well coached and trains hard
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beeray1
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Idk.. the point can be made for highlights sure. But if you're at a level to have that many quality points in a single tournament match, 2400 seems laughably low to me, and a 2500 player taking advantage of that guy seems about the same level of likelihood as anyone in the US taking advantage of whatever Eugene Wang's flaws might be. Sure, someone might scrape a win once in a great while, but you know how unlikely it is because he's that much better than everyone, and when it happens someone is having a great day and he is having a bad one.
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ashishsharmaait
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I though the lefty taking it easy? He seemed to have better anticipation and his playing distance seemed to indicate that.
They would both be 2500+ if not more. I think the lefty may be far higher rated and he might be taking it easy or the righty was so much more better than this game that the lefty had no choice. |
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NextLevel
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I may need to watch the video again but my initial impression was closer to CMB15.
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cmetsbeltran15
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Beeray, you're one of my favorite posters on this site, usually agree strongly with your opinions and the way you express them. However, I've seen plenty of evenly matched 2300s, 2400s have quality match highlight reels full of nice counterloops. Being able to have many such rallies doesn't automatically put you in elite territory. Comparing the difference between these guys and 2500 and anyone in the US vs Eugene is absolutely ludicrous man.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you not even in the USA? Can't be too familiar with the system if so. Anyways, read the video title. Mens Final. You think he was taking it easy to the point that he lost? Unlikely. Anyways, since we're doing credibility checks I must recall the time you predicted some 2800 players as being below 2100. Should probably sit these threads out after a mistake like that. http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65246&title=suggest-rating
Always hard to judge on such a short and selective video but I think it's pretty clear that the apparent lack of a backhand threat paired with a very strong but not dominant forehand would put them in serious trouble against a smart 2550, 2600+ player like Butler, Hugh, Han Xiao. Anyways I think I've done enough in this thread, I'll let other people weigh in here. Edited by cmetsbeltran15 - 03/14/2015 at 10:33am |
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Victor_the_cleaner
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I watched Butler vs Kunal Chordi recently.. a 2550 match.. and this video shows a match where the pace seems a little faster, and the balls are a little tighter. So while i don't like these guys' strokes either, i think they are probably a bit higher than 2550.
I think watching too much chinese TT and playing at a local club leaves a huge hole in the middle. I don't have experience evaluating above say 2300 and under 3000. 90% of what I've watched is pro tours and that really distorts one's perception, because you can have a lot of shortcomings compared to Ma Long and still be a solid 2600
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bes
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Highlight reel ratings are pretty hard to do, but I think 2400 is a bit generous. My observations:
If I were developing a strategy to play either of them I'd have my student really work on their serve, serve return, general short game, and backhand. I'd also have them work on counters and block (neither seems to "do" a lot with their blocks) against varying spin. A player that can effectively stay closer to the table should gain a pretty good advantage. bes |
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kenneyy88
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Butler and Kunal Chordi play pretty defensive/safe games, so of course the pace will be slower.
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cmetsbeltran15
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Its mostly the low camera angle that makes things look MUCH faster. I can guarantee you that the same camera angle for a Butler or Chodri loop would look the same.
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LUCKYLOOP
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The camera settings can distort the actual speed of the ball in the game, so it can be made to look faster or slower. I have filmed with different settings. .... |
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beeray1
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Haha it's completely okay to disagree with someone and not have ill will. For clarification, I am focused more on the stronger player. I dunno, the way I looked at it is how smooth he was in almost everything. His movement, anticipation, shot selection, feeling.. on top of the fact that he didn't seem to be giving 100% made it seem to me that 2400 is just too low. Maybe the Eugene analogy is a stretch, but there are a few things to consider. To be fair, I watched a few comparison matches a bit. Mainly some Westchester finals. So comparing him to some of our strong Chinese players like Zhang Kai (aggressive) Chen Ruichao (more all around) or even Damien Provost makes the pace of this match slow down from the way i originally looked at it. Any two players who know each other well can play a match of higher quality than usual. With that in mind, I still think 2400 is low-balling this guy for the reasons I mention in the first part of this post. I just can't think of anyone between 2400-2500 that I have seen in the tournaments I've been to that I can see being able to fully exploit this guy. 2700? Too high in my mind for sure. But to better categorize it, we'll start splitting hairs.
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Speedplay
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mostly agree with cmetsbeltran on this.
Based on the fact that. Swedish Elite player got 2450 ranking in the US when he was there, and he is making roughly the same results in Sweden as Gavin did when he was here, I doubt that a guy 7 places below Gavin would be that much better. Looking at the game itself, I would most likely go slightly lower with my guess. |
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ashishsharmaait
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You are right that I am not in the US...but I have played at the TopSpin San Jose for 6 months where there are 3-4 US 2500 players, lots of 2200 types... I agree that at the time of the earlier post I was not too well versed with the US rating system and the only rating I could correlate to then was ITTF and I was not aware of the skew between ITTF and USATT. I also didn't know that a 2200 in CA could be 100 points better than a 2200 in some other part. I just thought that the lefty was playing a bit loose or may be that's his playing style. He left the table too often to be on the defensive. I think these are really good players and I can only estimate their playing level from what I have seen in clubs in CA and I can't understand what you are getting all worked up about. |
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roundrobin
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Around 2400...both are solid players. Edited by roundrobin - 03/14/2015 at 9:51pm |
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cmetsbeltran15
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@beeray - Yup, just thought I'd mention my appreciation as a side note though
@ashish - Not worked up, didn't mean to come across that way - just think it's fair to say that people who aren't familiar with the USATT system shouldn't be in a thread assessing such a thing, but I didn't know that you had in fact spent time around high level players at a US club
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aroonkl
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Sometime it is not only familiar with system. It is perception and how do you look at things. Long ago when there was no internet yet. Our local team was supporting the prep for Asian Games arena. After we finished setting up floors and tables, we goofed off and played. We saw some players warming up/practicing near tables. A friend (2100+) looked at one young Asian player did FH drives and loops. He mentioned that player looked young and not that good. He (my friend) thought he might have a chance or good game against him. "Look at those loops. Not powerful at all." He pointed out. The rest were kind of mute. "That is Kong Linghui" One whispered.
Edited by aroonkl - 03/16/2015 at 9:39am |
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cmetsbeltran15
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. You make a good point, I meant that only as a bare minimum requirement. Funny story, thanks for sharing.
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cmetsbeltran15
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Old thread, but some interesting results that could provide some insight.
Gavin Rumgay and Kanak Jha (2650) had as close of a match as you can possibly get. Calum Main, who is a few rankings higher than Daglish, didn't stand much of a chance against Allen (2550). I may be wrong, but I believe Rumgay is significantly ahead of the rest of his country. Also, these videos are a bit old so it is reasonable to assume that as of yesterday they had improved from the time of the video. I know you can't really compare player to player results, but, you kind of can too. I'd be interested to hear what someone familiar with the Scottish scene would think about this.
Edited by cmetsbeltran15 - 03/02/2016 at 9:41am |
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timobogdan
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Please rate these players ! Thank you !
Edited by timobogdan - 03/03/2016 at 4:16pm |
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