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MJ ZLC & MJ SZLC

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liulin04 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03/19/2015 at 5:48pm
The classic MJ ZLC handle will be replaced by the new MJ SZLC handle.  The only difference in the handle is the vertical lines being white instead of gold/yellow on the szlc.

MJ Super ZLC


MJ ZLC
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NoRema View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoRema Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/19/2015 at 6:32pm
Awe. I was hoping when I saw these pictures they were coming out with a new mizutani blade


Click the picture for feedback ^
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Jeff(ATTC) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff(ATTC) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/19/2015 at 6:41pm
How do the MJ straight handles compare to the Maze and TBS?
Bty Jun Mizutani ZLC
FH: D80
BH: D05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/19/2015 at 6:50pm
To be released on 21 April. The new MJ ZLC is what Jun is using now and cost 50% more than the old MJ. No mention of anything different. Don't know how an update look can justify the 50% extra in price. Looks like Butterfly can ask for any price they want and still no worries about sale figures.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manraid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2016 at 6:26pm
to the members who played with both blades could u give me a brief comparison between both blades as regard every aspect (speed-spin-stiff-control-throw angle-close or far from the table ,.....etc)?

thanks in advance
MJ SZLC ST

FH Hurricane 8 2.15m Black
BH Super 999t 2.2mm Red


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manraid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2016 at 9:16pm
u mean mj szlc is faster than regular mj zlc?
MJ SZLC ST

FH Hurricane 8 2.15m Black
BH Super 999t 2.2mm Red


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkognito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2016 at 10:40am
I can second fatt. Played old Mizutani before, tried the SZLC and quickly got rid of it againTongue
3 BTY Jun Mizutani ST SZLC

FH/BH Butterfly Dignics 64 max

Buy some Butterfly or Stiga equipment?!?! PM me!!! EJ since 1993
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2016 at 10:59am
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

The regular mj is already too fast for most of us so the mj szlc is to be put in the same basket than schlager carbon and other axelo monster canonballs.


just put slow rubber on it and won't feel too fast

Edited by piligrim - 04/15/2016 at 11:00am
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piligrim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/16/2016 at 9:07am
Mizutani ZLC is not ferrari. its Mercedes or BMW. people buy this cars not only because they want fast driving. let say if you driving same speed on Corolla and on Mercedes. Which car you will prefer?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manraid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/16/2016 at 6:43pm
no one give me any detailed comparison between them

thanks for all who respond

my aim for questioning not for me but for a friend who intend to buy this blade and he play with my blade (mj szlc) and as mentioned above he said mj szlc  is a fast blade and too bouncy  one and wonder if regular mj zlc is the same that's why i put this post

thanks for all
MJ SZLC ST

FH Hurricane 8 2.15m Black
BH Super 999t 2.2mm Red


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/17/2016 at 8:08pm
Originally posted by manraid manraid wrote:

no one give me any detailed comparison between them

thanks for all who respond

my aim for questioning not for me but for a friend who intend to buy this blade and he play with my blade (mj szlc) and as mentioned above he said mj szlc  is a fast blade and too bouncy  one and wonder if regular mj zlc is the same that's why i put this post

thanks for all

Regular MJ is flexier, slightly slower, with a smaller sweet spot and a composite material that generates less spin as compared to the MJ-SZLC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manraid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2016 at 10:10am
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Originally posted by manraid manraid wrote:

no one give me any detailed comparison between them

thanks for all who respond

my aim for questioning not for me but for a friend who intend to buy this blade and he play with my blade (mj szlc) and as mentioned above he said mj szlc  is a fast blade and too bouncy  one and wonder if regular mj zlc is the same that's why i put this post

thanks for all

Regular MJ is flexier, slightly slower, with a smaller sweet spot and a composite material that generates less spin as compared to the MJ-SZLC.


generates less spin than mj szlc or generates less spin in general (less spin than tbs for example?)


and how about the bounciness is regular mj zlc bouncier than szlc or not?
and thanks alot for your respond


Edited by manraid - 04/18/2016 at 10:11am
MJ SZLC ST

FH Hurricane 8 2.15m Black
BH Super 999t 2.2mm Red


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t64t64t64 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t64t64t64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2016 at 11:37am
In general blades do not produce spin.
however players tends to favor some blade for spin and some for speed.
blades with ALC are ussualy known for players who favour "spin oriented game".
however ofcourse around 90% comes from the rubber and technique.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2016 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by t64t64t64 t64t64t64 wrote:

In general blades do not produce spin.

I think one might rethink that statement after comparing play with a pure carbon blade (I don't even know which - perhaps the Qabod or Schlager Carbon) vs with a 5-ply standard looping blade. This is especially true for soft loops.

It is a bit more complicated than that for power loops (in which soft all-wood blades produce less spin for me) and also when one uses a composite material (carbon + another fiber), but in general, IMHO, blades are a big determinant of spin generation, especially, when, for most practical purposes, players are really making rubber choices among the set that is largely similar (like MX-P vs OVT vs Rasant Grip, etc)

And yes, the SZLC material that is used in the MJ-SZLC is really something in terms of generating spin.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t64t64t64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2016 at 2:58pm
And yes that`s why there is no player in top500 who use SZLC :)
i am not here to argue.
everybody have his own true and discover what works for him.
just because you like any wood or fiber it doesnt mean that op will like it as well.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manraid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2016 at 10:03am
how about the bounciness, is regular mj zlc bouncier than szlc or not?
MJ SZLC ST

FH Hurricane 8 2.15m Black
BH Super 999t 2.2mm Red


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2016 at 9:25am
Originally posted by t64t64t64 t64t64t64 wrote:

And yes that`s why there is no player in top500 who use SZLC :)

Mizutani used the MJ-SZLC to win the recent Polish Open. I'm not just going by the handle color (which was the same as that of the SZLC - but not reliable as it could be customized for him) but by the stiffness of the blade that manifested in his strokes.

However, I just don't like the look of his combo - seems like low dwell compared to what I know. Perhaps, he does not use T05 and uses T64 (which, to me just does not seem to be a good match for that blade. T05 & MX-P work great on FH, T64 just does not). He is probably very used to that rubber.


Edited by slevin - 04/27/2016 at 9:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2016 at 10:34am
I don't wish to be rude, but there is no way you would be able to perceive the stiffness or (especially) the dwell of a blade just by watching video of JM play; certainly not to the extent that you would be able to say that he is playing with a ZLC or a S-ZLC!  This is EJ-ism run amok.  Again, I don't wish to be a jerk about it, but some claims of secret knowledge have to be challenged. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2016 at 11:31am
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Originally posted by t64t64t64 t64t64t64 wrote:

And yes that`s why there is no player in top500 who use SZLC :)

Mizutani used the MJ-SZLC to win the recent Polish Open. I'm not just going by the handle color (which was the same as that of the SZLC - but not reliable as it could be customized for him) but by the stiffness of the blade that manifested in his strokes.

However, I just don't like the look of his combo - seems like low dwell compared to what I know. Perhaps, he does not use T05 and uses T64 (which, to me just does not seem to be a good match for that blade. T05 & MX-P work great on FH, T64 just does not). He is probably very used to that rubber.

JM has been switching between ZLC and SZLC for a while now.  I remember a blog post from him a while back where he mentioned that he was frustrated with equipment selection since the plastic ball came out and couldn't make up his mind.  And yes - the handle in Poland looked like the SZLC to me.

It might just be me, but he seems to play much more aggressively with the SZLC.  Although that might be more to do with the opposition he's facing.  And I don't have a complete picture of which blade he's used everywhere, obviously.

I thought he used T64 anyway?  Or is that just BTY marketing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2016 at 11:37am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I don't wish to be rude, but there is no way you would be able to perceive the stiffness or (especially) the dwell of a blade just by watching video of JM play; certainly not to the extent that you would be able to say that he is playing with a ZLC or a S-ZLC!  This is EJ-ism run amok.  Again, I don't wish to be a jerk about it, but some claims of secret knowledge have to be challenged. 

MJ ZLC is a pretty flexy blade - clearly more than any Viscaria.
MJ SZLC is a pretty stiff blade - more than any Viscaria.

Similar names, but different behaviour. It is not like the negligible difference between Viscaria / TBALC / TBS / ZJK-ALC. I've predominantly used the MJ & the MJ-SZLC for about 2.25 of the last 3 years.

It is not difficult to make out when players are using particularly stiff or flexy set-ups. Catapault from flexy blade clearly looks different when player makes a stroke that would maximise flex. Different from a rebound of a very stiff, OFF+ blade.

Werner Schlager during his famous WTTC run: stiff set-up
Freitas generally: flexy blade

I don't want to bother through the laborious process of cutting and creating GIFS, but if you see the short-form match between MJ & Ovtcharov in the Polish open, MJ's shots don't have that flex-catapault that they generally do when he used to use the MJ-ZLC.


Edited by slevin - 04/27/2016 at 11:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2016 at 12:17pm

"It is not difficult to make out when players are using particularly stiff or flexy set-ups."

And you can see the difference between a ZLC and a S-ZLC?  Yeah, right.

I am not going to say anymore about this except to again use the phrase "EJism run amok".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2016 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

And you can see the difference between a ZLC and a S-ZLC?  Yeah, right.

I admit that this is purely unsubstantiated but: I'm guessing that you haven't compared the 2 blades side-by-side much with the same rubbers have you?

Given the nature of your allegation, I'm unsure of how I can further make my point (it is one unsubstantiated viewpoint vs another).

Either ways, back to my OTHER contention that he most likely was using a MJ-SZLC @ the Polish Open:




Edited by slevin - 04/27/2016 at 12:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOOPMEISTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2016 at 1:12pm
Looks like white stripes to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2016 at 1:22pm
 judging TT ball behavior such as dwell time by watching a video replay of a match that is being recorded for the purpose of showing the match on conventional TV or similar devices is not suited for that purpose of judging dwell time or the time a ball is at rest on a paddle since it would require capturing information that is happening around 1.9M/S. 


Edited by lineup32 - 04/27/2016 at 1:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOOPMEISTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2016 at 1:23pm
My 1 cent:

MJ likely helped to test/develop the MJ SZLC, and maybe even played some tournaments with it.

But he switched back to the new handle MJ ZLC soon after SZLC came out.

Then he went back to his trusty old handle MJ ZLC.

Now he appears to be playing with the new handle ZLC again. (Which probably makes BTY corporate happy.)

At his level I don't see that he could just switch back and forth from SZLC from ZLC at a whim (on the ITTF Pro Tour), and its evident because he's been using ZLC since SZLC came out... He's playing on the razor's edge of performance and feeling, and he's not going to switch technology in the middle of an Olympic year. Zero chance. Any perceived performance or technique changes can/should be attributed to the new ball or modified training and techniques, or both.

MJ is playing with ZLC. Cool


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PointEngineer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2016 at 5:54am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:


"It is not difficult to make out when players are using particularly stiff or flexy set-ups."

And you can see the difference between a ZLC and a S-ZLC?  Yeah, right.

I am not going to say anymore about this except to again use the phrase "EJism run amok".

I would concur.  People must have some incredibly sensitive/brilliant cognitive vision to "see" flex without high speed slow mo!  Possibly they see a small net speed difference gauging from inbound/outbound ball speed estimated spin and trajectory and location on the bat on contact point, as well as biomechanics of the player (wrist speed and looseness, ower/ upper arm speed, trunk speed etc etc etc). Amazing if true.  Myself...I don't think I could see for sure even reasonable speed differences between two offensive setups.  However, I imagine if you know back to front a particular player's style then you would perhaps notice quite small equipment adjustments when watching them?


Edited by PointEngineer - 04/28/2016 at 6:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proSpin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2016 at 1:15pm
Looks like Old handle ZLC at asian cup to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2016 at 6:01pm

Actually he used the new Jun ZLC in Asian Cup.
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