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Serving Practice, Tick Whip Backhands and Spin

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    Posted: 04/06/2015 at 6:11am
Last year, I wrote an article on how serving practice could improve your game.  


However, I failed to understand what was really happening.  

And last week, I recommended that people use floor serves and bed serves to work on their game.

I would like to say that thanks to TTEdge and Brett Clarke, I have finally figured out why this can be extremely helpful - it can help you unconsciously develop the tick-whip motion, which was what it did to me.

Many of you may have watched Brett Clarke's video below:


Brett has now also posted this video:



Please watch both videos in full before continuing and note that the tick whip does not have to be huge.

In the second video, he explains how to use the wrist properly.  What I only just realized was that I unconsciously used this tick whip motion in a very short form more often when doing high toss serves because I found it difficult to time the ball with a large swing.  Paradoxically, it made my short swing serves spinnier than my larger swing serves.  My larger swing serves tended to pause more on the backswing rather than whipping through because of my timing issues.  And despite this, I kept on using my large and less spinny serves because I thought the short tick whip motion serves were bad form(!) (too be fair to myself, I use a less effective whipping motion on my larger serves). 

So like I said in my article last year, I started using short whip motions while looping.  Again, it wasn't ideal technique in terms of stroke size and finish, especially on the forehand side, but it helped a lot.  In fact, I think many intermediate players instinctively try to do this when they are late to a backspin ball and try to do a short stroke to get it over the net.  The problem is that they tense up and rarely if ever time the whip properly. They end up doing the forward motion and just softly tapping the ball and sending it nowhere, rather than whipping their forearm and wrist back and forth and playing a slow spinny topspin like they intended to do.

While I am not an advocate of bad technique and strokes that are too short,  I can guarantee you that short tick-whip strokes will likely be better than many adult u1600 players are doing when looping backspin on the forehand side (a good backhand stroke is already a tick whip).

I won't pretend to understand all the nuances of the tick-whip motion, but for an arthritic person like myself, it's greatly helped my table tennis.  Muscling the ball is now largely a thing of the past.  I play longer, with more power and with less stress (now if we could do something like a tick whip with my knees, that would be a miracle).  Sounds like a good infomercial, right?

If you are someone interested in understanding table tennis better, and have always had questions about TT Technique, I would strongly encourage you to join TTEdge.com.  I personally think that coaches would find it even more helpful than ITTF manuals etc. as Brett is explaining a lot of stuff in the kind of detail that would help anyone who reflects on the game a lot.  Adults who like to understand what they are doing can still argue if they want to on points of disagreement, but at least, they will enjoy the structure.

So, again, keep practicing those floor and bed serves and even high toss serves.  Look for feedback from the spin.  Use a short whipping motion.  If properly practiced, it will improve all your strokes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2015 at 10:22am
Here is another video with the Tick Whip motion applied to the Pendulum serve.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brett Clarke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2015 at 1:23pm
NextLevel,

I just watched those videos and the dude looks completely crazy!

It would be interesting to see the before and after of your straight backspin serve. Do you have any footage?

Cheers, Brett
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V-Griper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2015 at 2:21pm
That shake hands grip was too off. He seems to play more like penhold player. I think that is the way he normally plays and he was just messing around playing SH. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2015 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by V-Griper V-Griper wrote:

That shake hands grip was too off. He seems to play more like penhold player. I think that is the way he normally plays and he was just messing around playing SH. 

I think if you watch video tape, you will see that my forehand loop is looking pretty penhold these days, especially on the backswing.  When watching this drill, I had to give my wrist action on the backswing a double take... yeah, the drill is not perfect technique, so please don't harp on that... just the wrist action...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2015 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by Brett Clarke Brett Clarke wrote:

NextLevel,

I just watched those videos and the dude looks completely crazy!

It would be interesting to see the before and after of your straight backspin serve. Do you have any footage?

Cheers, Brett

Okay, BOSS.  Will do both serves back to back and post sometime this week.  One of them will look like I didn't even do a backswing...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2015 at 3:19pm
pardon my ignorance, but how does your FH look like penhold?  i hardly ever see a penholder, much less play one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2015 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

pardon my ignorance, but how does your FH look like penhold?  i hardly ever see a penholder, much less play one.

If you look at the takeback on some of the strokes, you see significant wrist action as the blade goes back.

OK, it might be my imagination but I can see it Tongue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2015 at 7:11pm
Originally posted by V-Griper V-Griper wrote:

That shake hands grip was too off. He seems to play more like penhold player. I think that is the way he normally plays and he was just messing around playing SH. 
Ummm, no... Brett Clarke has been a left-handed, shake hands grip player for a long, long time.  I kind of thought that his videos had been popping up for long enough now for everybody to have worked that out.  And if you're not convinced, try youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuiL3DHfYe8 

What I do find confusing, however, is NextLevel talking about "tick whip" technique applied to forehand looping.  Taking the backhand tick whip video as the reference point, I don't understand how that motion can be applied to a forehand.  In the pendulum serve video, there is a clear whipping motion backwards and forwards but it's not the same four step action highlighted in the backhand stroke.

Perhaps this is just a terminology issue: I can see where the wrist can be cocked and then "whipped" as the ball is forehand looped, but that certainly doesn't look anything like what Brett is doing in either video.  The closest I can imagine on the forehand side to a "tick whip" would be a forehand flick return off a short serve, and it is most definitely not a loop:



Edited by Tassie52 - 04/06/2015 at 7:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2015 at 8:07pm
Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

What I do find confusing, however, is NextLevel talking about "tick whip" technique applied to forehand looping.  Taking the backhand tick whip video as the reference point, I don't understand how that motion can be applied to a forehand.  In the pendulum serve video, there is a clear whipping motion backwards and forwards but it's not the same four step action highlighted in the backhand stroke.

Perhaps this is just a terminology issue: I can see where the wrist can be cocked and then "whipped" as the ball is forehand looped, but that certainly doesn't look anything like what Brett is doing in either video.  

Tassie52,  V-Griper was clearly joking BTW, but I'll let him respond in more detail if he wants to.

First of all, yes, you described a tick whip loop but Brett didn't do a forehand loop in either video so I am not sure what your point is.  If you haven't ever seen a tick whip loop vs. backspin, I promise to tape one tomorrow and make it plainly obvious.  Essentially, my point is that if you don't even learn to bend your knees and get down low, you can loop the lighter forms of backspin with a wrist and elbow motion (and below the 1600 level, 95% of the backspin is the lighter forms of backspin, the exception being high level junior hitter girls).  See my Service Return at 17:30.  Again. loop vs. topspin is also a terminology issue.


Many people who are petrified by backspin would be happy to reliably get it over the net and this imperfect stroke would work for many of them as a short term hack.  Of course, a coach should have higher aspirations for students but not every student has such high aspirations and at least, this relies on something that will transfer well to other parts of table tennis technique.

Getting good racket head speed from very short swings is not easy in a full rally and when the spin is heavy, you have to be able to match the speed of the spin to feel confident that you are controlling it. Also the mechanics of the elbow and wrist make it easier to get more spin out of tick whip motions on the backhand.  But it is quite possible on the forehand as well. 


Edited by NextLevel - 04/06/2015 at 8:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V-Griper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2015 at 9:17pm
My bad I thought BC was commenting about that 2300 player you were playing in your YT vid. Was talking with Matt about it and we had a suspicion that he was actually a PH player in real liifeLOL

Big misunderstanding. That's what I get for chatting and posting on a thread at the same time.

NL-

FH loop is looking really good btw. Watching your progress and your stroke mechanics super efficient now. 

You even have your own version of the hip extension and weight transfer optimized around your knee issues. It's interesting to me because I generally work from the legs torso out to the arms but you started with the arm mechanics and that kind of forced the torso and leg mechanics to kick in. Either way your base stroke mechanic is solid.

Working with BC and WH has really helped you improve at a fairly rapid rate and from what I can see the attention to detail on the stroke mechanics is paying big dividends.

At this point I think your FH is actually ahead of your BH now, so I am interested in what path you are going to take with your BH.  I would, of course, advocate for more bias in the grip and develop solid counter hit BH that will plug the whole in the middle created by your mobility issues. 

Basically this kind of BH.







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2015 at 10:16pm
Originally posted by V-Griper V-Griper wrote:

My bad I thought BC was commenting about that 2300 player you were playing in your YT vid. Was talking with Matt about it and we had a suspicion that he was actually a PH player in real liifeLOL

Big misunderstanding. That's what I get for chatting and posting on a thread at the same time.

NL-

FH loop is looking really good btw. Watching your progress and your stroke mechanics super efficient now. 

You even have your own version of the hip extension and weight transfer optimized around your knee issues. It's interesting to me because I generally work from the legs torso out to the arms but you started with the arm mechanics and that kind of forced the torso and leg mechanics to kick in. Either way your base stroke mechanic is solid.

Working with BC and WH has really helped you improve at a fairly rapid rate and from what I can see the attention to detail on the stroke mechanics is paying big dividends.

At this point I think your FH is actually ahead of your BH now, so I am interested in what path you are going to take with your BH.  I would, of course, advocate for more bias in the grip and develop solid counter hit BH that will plug the whole in the middle created by your mobility issues. 

Basically this kind of BH.


Thanks for the compliments.  I was already USATT 2000 with a practical forehand (think Georgina Pota) I definitely could loop backspin with power off on third ball plays and smash and counterhit - before I started the rebuild.  I mean, some people on the forum rated my forehand as 1900 and no one gets a 1900 forehand without being able to have certain elements already in place.  So it was the arm mechanics that needed to be fixed more than anything else.  Moreover, when I rebuild any stroke, I start with the arm mechanics because I don't have good knees and because I believe 60% of the battle is won there.  I give 30% to the body/core and 10% to the stuff that separates advanced players from the rest of us.
 
And when I think about it, the reason I survived so long with that forehand was because the forehand I had was servicable when the balls were of lower quality, which is what you get in the rating ranges I played in.  I now look at some matches which I won 3-0 sometimes and I look away from the screen when I see my old arm mechanics.  But it got the job done against players who couldn't force me to counterspin.  And I think that I could have gotten some more mileage out of my flat forehand, but the problem was that I really wanted to have counterspinning as an option.  The best thing about the fix is that I see so many players making the mistakes I made everyday during warm ups and it tells me exactly where to go to score my points... not many better than me, but quite a few slightly below and many much lower.

As for my backhand, I like to believe that I have the best backhand coach on the East Coast and I haven't worked on backhands seriously with him in a few months so I hardly worry about it.  With the grip I use now, the backhand and forehand naturally bias themselves from neutral to create the racket angles to handle different spins so I don't think about it that much.  My issue is when the grip (finger position) is radically changed to accomodate this (like Timo Boll or our mutual friends) - that's what I don't do.  I hit most of my BH strokes with a racket angle that is far more BH biased than Ma Long's in the videos you posted  because my wrist is backwards on almost all my backhand strokes.  and is only let it go forward on drives.  It does need some practice but I tend not to worry about it.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/08/2015 at 1:27am
Completed all my video HW.

So for Tassie52's benefit, here is some forehand tick whip looping - I didn't do it vs backspin, but if you doubt I can do it vs. backspin after looking at my wrist action and ball spin, let me know.  Yeah, since I have been working on my forehand for a while, there is some cheating in there, but I hope it at least convinces you that it is conceptually possible.  My stroke gets shorter over time in the first video and remains about the same in the second.



Here is the serve practice that Brett requested with the backspin serve.  Not going to be able to disguise that as no-spin anytime soon...



Edited by NextLevel - 04/08/2015 at 1:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brett Clarke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2015 at 10:20am
In relation to the whip on the forehand, it about the wrist acting as a hinge at the end of the backswing as per the backhand videos above. It is much more subtle on the forehand however it's there if you know what to look for. The straight and relaxed arm's momentum snaps the bat back (wrist is hinge) at the end of the swing and then it quickly snaps forward as the arm changes direction. 

Here is a short video of NextLevel's whip next to Ma Lin's. Ma Lin obviously uses his body perfectly to add to the whip, but NextLevel has a nice wrist action too.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2015 at 11:35am
Ah, I like my eyes now too...
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