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short pips on forehand

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    Posted: 04/28/2015 at 1:27pm
I'm thinking of putting short pips on my forehand. I've always been more of a flat hitter than a looper. Although my looping has seriously improved over the years, I just don't have the power and the footwork  to loop every ball. I'm looking for a really fast and spinny short pip that enables me to loop the first ball and than finish the point with a killer smash. Any suggestions?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rajd1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2015 at 2:00pm
One of my clubmates uses some Dr.Neubauer short pimples on FH and Anti on BH. He used to be an inverted rubber user. The problem he faces is the shot selection and rally away from table. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2015 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

I just don't have the...footwork
If your footwork is not that good, short pips won't help you either. You have less margin of error with sp so footwork is very important.
Originally posted by rajd1234 rajd1234 wrote:

The problem he faces is the shot selection and rally away from table.
You need to stay close to the table with sp (and anti unless you chop).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2015 at 2:19pm
Most people start with 802-40, it's a whopping $8 a sheet, works fine and is somewhat spinny, so the transition from inverted is eased.

You can get it from several places, I bought mine from Cole.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2015 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

I just don't have the...footwork
If your footwork is not that good, short pips won't help you either. You have less margin of error with sp so footwork is very important.
Originally posted by rajd1234 rajd1234 wrote:

The problem he faces is the shot selection and rally away from table.
You need to stay close to the table with sp (and anti unless you chop).

well yes you're right maybe that came out wrong. What I meant to say was that looping every ball does not feel naturally to me. I definitely realise that you have to be quick on your feet to play with short pimples succesfully.


Edited by Skyline - 04/28/2015 at 2:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2015 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

Most people start with 802-40, it's a whopping $8 a sheet, works fine and is somewhat spinny, so the transition from inverted is eased.

You can get it from several places, I bought mine from Cole.

jfolsen

I have tried the 802-40 but I'm afraid that it's too slow for me. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gatz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2015 at 3:33pm
spectol would be your best bet but you really need to get used to it to unleash the power....it is more specific and precise on the timing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42andbackpains Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2015 at 4:28pm
I have made the switch to short pips on my BH. Short pips requires even better timing than inverted rubbers and correct position of your blade angle. Since i only play once per week, its been a struggle. My advise is to ask someone in your club to give you some pointers. I use Stiga Clippa 2.0 and its a allround short pips that can do everything you need. I previously tried Adidas spin blaze 1.8 and it was indeed spinnier than Stiga Clippa, but it lacked the control i get from Clippa. Good luck on your endeavors. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JEAus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2015 at 5:17pm
I switched to short pips on the forehand for a couple of years and Raystorm worked best for me. I found Blaze Spin much harder to control as it seemed inconsistent, 802-40 was slower and less spinny with similar control. As I used a mixture of loops, drives and flat hits, I didn't try less spinny short pips.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suds79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2015 at 5:58pm
If coming from inverted, I'd probably 802-40 in 2.0

I play regular 802 in 2.0

If you're more of a flat hitter, it might be a good switch for you. Chances are you're not hitting with much spin anyways. But here are some things you can expect.

- You have to choose your shots of which ones to go for much more carefully. You simply cannot spin any shot. Particularly low balls.
- You should be up on the table. Playing off the table and rallying with SPs will make you feel out gunned.
- The blocking & feeling of control is wonderful. You'll have to become more of a directional & placement player.
- Dang near any serve off the table you can attack. I reference Liu Guoliang here. He was great to watch in how he handles long serves.
- You'll do very little looping, if at all.

Lastly, keep in mind the spinier the SP you choose, the less disturbance effect it will have on your opponents. The less spinny it is, the more they will complain that the ball is dead and the trajectory is so flat... but then again it's harder to attack with that sort of rubber. It's a give & take.

I myself prefer middle of the road grip and I'll just learn to hit with it. If i wanted spiny, I'd just play inverted.


Edited by suds79 - 04/28/2015 at 5:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2015 at 5:59pm
Rakza P.O. Kristian Karlsson is Europe's highest rated shakehand short pips forehand player and he uses this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2015 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by GeneralSpecific GeneralSpecific wrote:

Rakza P.O. Kristian Karlsson is Europe's highest rated shakehand short pips forehand player and he uses this.

who knows the features of rakza PO  , Mathias FH was  very fast playing to the frenchman.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnachtwey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/29/2015 at 12:15am
802-40 1.8 or maybe 2.0mm for starters.
802 2mm after you adapted to 802-40.
There are grippier SP out there but why bother?  If you want grip use inverted rubber.
There are some older Chinese gents at the club that play with 802 1.5mm on their c-pen and play first table in league play.  I find 802 1.5mm to be so thin for FH rubber.
What did He Zhi Wen use?  I thought he used 802 2mm.
I have never played well with 802 on my FH.  Only 802-40.   802-40 doesn't have much grip and 802 has even less.


  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/29/2015 at 12:32am
Originally posted by pnachtwey pnachtwey wrote:

802-40 1.8 or maybe 2.0mm for starters.
802 2mm after you adapted to 802-40.
There are grippier SP out there but why bother?  If you want grip use inverted rubber.
There are some older Chinese gents at the club that play with 802 1.5mm on their c-pen and play first table in league play.  I find 802 1.5mm to be so thin for FH rubber.
What did He Zhi Wen use?  I thought he used 802 2mm.
I have never played well with 802 on my FH.  Only 802-40.   802-40 doesn't have much grip and 802 has even less.


  

he has played with 802 and tsp sponge, also dolphin and now with superspinpips
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote viva Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/29/2015 at 12:32am
Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

I'm thinking of putting short pips on my forehand. I've always been more of a flat hitter than a looper. Although my looping has seriously improved over the years, I just don't have the power and the footwork  to loop every ball. I'm looking for a really fast and spinny short pip that enables me to loop the first ball and than finish the point with a killer smash. Any suggestions?


Try Victas > 102 in 1.8 or mizuno short pips.
Victas is the easiest switch and mizuno short pips are possibly the fastest and quite fast.




Edited by viva - 04/29/2015 at 12:33am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/29/2015 at 12:37am
Originally posted by GeneralSpecific GeneralSpecific wrote:

Rakza P.O. Kristian Karlsson is Europe's highest rated shakehand short pips forehand player and he uses this.

You mean Mathias - Kristian plays with inverted.

For the OP - try one of the Butterfly Short pips if you want to go that route - Flarestorm, Raystorm and Challenger Attack all have good reputations. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/29/2015 at 1:14am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by GeneralSpecific GeneralSpecific wrote:

Rakza P.O. Kristian Karlsson is Europe's highest rated shakehand short pips forehand player and he uses this.

You mean Mathias - Kristian plays with inverted.


Yes I mean Mathias. I always confuse the two of them. Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/29/2015 at 1:16am
Stiga Royal.  I tried 1.8mm for close-to-the-table, and 2.0mm.  I like 1.8mm better.  If you hit everything like crazy (like me) I would go with 1.8mm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/29/2015 at 2:05am
Originally posted by viva viva wrote:

Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

I'm thinking of putting short pips on my forehand. I've always been more of a flat hitter than a looper. Although my looping has seriously improved over the years, I just don't have the power and the footwork  to loop every ball. I'm looking for a really fast and spinny short pip that enables me to loop the first ball and than finish the point with a killer smash. Any suggestions?


Try Victas > 102 in 1.8 or mizuno short pips.
Victas is the easiest switch and mizuno short pips are possibly the fastest and quite fast.



there is mizuno booster HP,EV,SA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/29/2015 at 4:33am
Originally posted by speedy speedy wrote:

Stiga Royal.  I tried 1.8mm for close-to-the-table, and 2.0mm.  I like 1.8mm better.  If you hit everything like crazy (like me) I would go with 1.8mm.
Is royal spinny enough for looping the first ball? And why do you prefer 1.8 over 2.0?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyChop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/29/2015 at 7:25pm
Originally posted by speedy speedy wrote:

Stiga Royal.  I tried 1.8mm for close-to-the-table, and 2.0mm.  I like 1.8mm better.  If you hit everything like crazy (like me) I would go with 1.8mm.


Speedy how do you find royal with the new ball?
Does it have more spin or less then the likes of spectol and 802?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buffalowings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/29/2015 at 9:42pm
moristo SP hands down.
 
in terms speed and spin.
 
abit hard to control due to the power of it. dont go for max. try 2.0 first.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny1996 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2015 at 1:28am
winning np1 np8, good control.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2015 at 3:32am
Originally posted by buffalowings buffalowings wrote:

moristo SP hands down.
 
in terms speed and spin.
 
abit hard to control due to the power of it. dont go for max. try 2.0 first.

A chinese girl became single  junior world champion with moristo on FH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Da Baobei Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2015 at 4:56am
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by buffalowings buffalowings wrote:


moristo SP hands down.
 
in terms speed and spin.
 
abit hard to control due to the power of it. dont go for max. try 2.0 first.


A chinese girl became single  junior world champion with moristo on FH


Also a lot of the japanese women/girls play with moristo - I think in 1.8 - on their bh.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2015 at 5:36am
Originally posted by Da Baobei Da Baobei wrote:

Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by buffalowings buffalowings wrote:


moristo SP hands down.
 
in terms speed and spin.
 
abit hard to control due to the power of it. dont go for max. try 2.0 first.


A chinese girl became single  junior world champion with moristo on FH


Also a lot of the japanese women/girls play with moristo - I think in 1.8 - on their bh.

what about  hammond FA speed and the new short pips(nittaku beautry)? heard anything bout them  or any good last gen short pip?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Da Baobei Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2015 at 11:34am
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by Da Baobei Da Baobei wrote:

Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by buffalowings buffalowings wrote:


moristo SP hands down.
 
in terms speed and spin.
 
abit hard to control due to the power of it. dont go for max. try 2.0 first.


A chinese girl became single  junior world champion with moristo on FH


Also a lot of the japanese women/girls play with moristo - I think in 1.8 - on their bh.

what about  hammond FA speed and the new short pips(nittaku beautry)? heard anything bout them  or any good last gen short pip?


Nittaku claims that Beautry is made for the plastic ball and that it's their spinniest short pip. It offers maximum diameter minimum height and density of the pimple in current ITTF specification. According to some reviews it offers great spin with decent speed and is not as bouncy as the Moristo SP. It should be similar to Mizuno's Booster SA which has been the best selling short pip in Japan for months. The Beautry is made in Japan and has the same sponge hardness as the german made Moristo SP.

I don't know much about Hammond FA Speed other than that it was used besides Spectol 21 before many pros switched to Moristo SP.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyChop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2015 at 8:30pm
I feel moristo is picky on blades... It is best on slightly softer blades rather then a hard one
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2015 at 9:11pm
Moristo is good for speedy countering but too soft for me.  Hard to put enough spin on pushes and serves.  Overall, I find that BTY Challenger 1.9 in black (at the recommendation of Gao Jun) works best for me with the new plastic ball.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote interact215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2015 at 10:22pm
I was just about to recommend Butterfly Challenger Attack 1.9 when I saw roundrobin's post. I've been playing penhold with SP on FH for only 2 months, EJing SPs including JOOLA Express Ultra, Stiga Clippa, and 802-40, on a few different high quality blades including Xiom Strad, Stiga Clipper Wood and Butterfly Chinese Tamca ULC. I just tried Challenger on my Strad and it's the best combo so far. Better control than other SPs I tried and still comparable spin and speed. Flat hitting has been really good so far.

My understanding is Challenger is an "in between" SP which is part "classic" (hit through spin) and part "sticky" newer generation SP. I believe it's also medium hardness. JEU, Clippa, Raystorm, 802-40, Moristo, and Victas are all in the "sticky" category, so they have less of the de-spinning qualities of "classic" SPs.
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