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Playing LP against very strong 3rd ball game |
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notfound123 
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Joined: 01/18/2008 Location: MD, USA Status: Offline Points: 1025 |
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 Topic: Playing LP against very strong 3rd ball gamePosted: 11/19/2015 at 2:25pm |
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I’ve started exploring the dark side (LP on BH) after playing as a 2 wing looper my whole life. I am coming back after a lengthy hiatus (20 years) and have been slowly climbing up the ladder. Officially I am in mid 1500s but recently had several close matches and took 1-2 games from players in the 1800-2100 range which is where I was when I was competing as a junior. I usually don’t have issues against lower ranked folks who can’t read spin nor have consistent attack. While I had some awesome matches, there were a couple folks in the 1800-2100 range to whom I lost badly without any real chance due to their 3rd ball attack. It would go like this: a mild spin/no spin serve to my LP (away from my FH), I push, then they loop with consistency ( either to BH or FH) and with mad spin. So, deep BH, push, then deep FH which I often can’t even touch. What is the best LP strategy against people who have a very strong 3rd ball game?
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smackman
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Joined: 07/20/2009 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 3264 |
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Posted: 11/19/2015 at 2:59pm |
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Hi always the same strategy's
keep your returns tight. vary your returns try to take the serve ball quicker and do proactive return. try taking it longer and chop the ball roll with your backhand twiddle and backhand loop pivot to your forehand I find going to the ball and then variations are the best ways |
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mts388
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Joined: 03/21/2014 Location: Sonora CA Status: Offline Points: 2382 |
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Posted: 11/19/2015 at 3:24pm |
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You might try being more aggressive with your return of serve. Make them work to get a decent 3rd ball attack. I use OX and "loop" almost all of the long serves and short topspin serves. Short backspin serves get a hard push or a hard sidespin return.
Try to it as uncomfortable as you can when they play to your pips. Players who know how to play against LP's love passive LP players. Make them respond to your aggressive play. |
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NextLevel
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Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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Posted: 11/19/2015 at 4:22pm |
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As you get better, the ideas are the same - it's all about execution. Short returns, low returns, high returns (for the right customer), deceptive returns (fake one way and go the other), wide short returns (break the sideline), long fast and deep returns to allow you to set up your defences etc. And there are other and more options if you use the inverted to generate spin on some returns.
At the 1500 level, giving the ball back to the player to attack is okay because of inconsistency of the attack and the generally low quality of attacks. But as the level of attacker gets higher, you have to at worst give them an attack that you can defend against. Anything worse than that is going to cost you the point. Putting the ball in the middle of the table above 1800 is asking for heavy topspin or a loopkill.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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vanjr
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Posted: 11/19/2015 at 5:05pm |
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Heavy spin 3rd balls should help you. It gives you something to work with and give back to them.
Fast dead 3rd balls are another story:(
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notfound123
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Joined: 01/18/2008 Location: MD, USA Status: Offline Points: 1025 |
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Posted: 11/19/2015 at 10:27pm |
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Thanks all. I twiddle frequently and often succeed with a good opening loop but H3 (mine is ~40 degrees) is not exactly known for being an easy to use BH rubber. I love the feel of it on FH but it's way too hard for BH. I end up playing almost like a penholder trying to cover the table with my FH.
After some time I might need to start looking into tensors like Evolution, Rasant Grip, etc.
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a23096713
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Joined: 08/20/2004 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 250 |
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Posted: 11/20/2015 at 6:42pm |
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One way is vary your spin. Especially at lower level, i find it super effective to use LP ability to nullified the incoming spin. Instead of pushing, I made lifting the ball look like a push. Most tend to send the ball off the table if they try to loop. Some player thought the LP can only reverse spin. Actually, it can do way more.
Second, you can just step around and counterloop or catch his weak serve. This is a chopper strategy that work well. You basically put a mental wall to stop them repeating same strategy. |
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Chop, Chop, and Counter Loop!
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kevo
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Posted: 11/20/2015 at 10:03pm |
I totally agree. If there is a serve that is giving you trouble to the LPs, invite it, step around and whack the shi££te out of it. They will then think twice about it. Ergo, your pips have again done their work in making the opponent think, think, think... Of course, if that doesn't work you can always, ummmm, step around and whack the ever living sh**te out of the ball and if that doesn't work...Ummmm...(see above!)
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1dennistt
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Posted: 11/21/2015 at 12:31am |
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Learn to hit the low spin/no spin balls with the long pips. For a lot of these level players that is a very uncomfortable ball to return, try to keep it to their middle and backhand when you hit it. Do try the forehand also as a variation. Some players will loop this ball long all day long. I used to do this well with Butterfly Feint Long II and later with the Giant Dragon Giant Long. I had a sheet of the 388D-1 Quattro, but didn't like it as much for my game. If you have the standard 388D-1 you should be fine. Takes practice to become confident with the hitting game with long pips, but gives your opponent something else to worry about when they serve a long ball.
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Donic Waldner World Champion 1989 ZLC (Inner), Donic BlueStorm Pro (Red) Max, ????? (Black) 1.8 mm)
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heavyspin
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Posted: 11/23/2015 at 3:23pm |
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In addition to the good suggestions mentioned a sideswipe to your opponent's wide forehand works well. Big 3rd ball loopers are usually prepared to forehand attack balls in the middle or in their backhand court. It may be risky, however, if you haven't mastered that shot.
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notfound123
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Posted: 11/23/2015 at 11:29pm |
For serves that are played short - this is very effective and very much doable. If a serve is BH-BH and is long, the angle is such that it makes it very difficult to return back to their FH.
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skip3119
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Posted: 11/24/2015 at 10:55am |
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Played inverted rubber all my life, and tried LP on and off for a couple of years, then completely switched to LP about a year ago - due to advanced age. I am a penhold player without the skill of RPB.
Recently lost a match to a player 200 league-rating points below me. He gave me a no-spin fast serve, I blocked it (sometimes fly off the table) he then attacked and got the point most of the time. Next time I'll try to use inverted to receive his serves and give him some strong back-spin balls. Using LP to block a no-spin serve, the ball goes back to my opponent that is much easier for him to attack. Edited by skip3119 - 11/24/2015 at 10:56am |
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skip3119
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mickd
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Posted: 11/24/2015 at 7:17pm |
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At my local club they said the same thing. If you're versing long pips, serve more no spin balls. It's a lot harder for them to deal with since they can't generate their own spin.
It's a simple tactic that works well up to a certain point, I guess. You may be passed that level though.
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1dennistt
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Posted: 11/24/2015 at 9:34pm |
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If you can flip fast enough to attack with the inverted that is probably the best option for you, since you have always played inverted in the past. You'll need to get a very early read on the ball to make this effective.
When I play against long pips, I try to mix long fast serves with light top, light chop and dead (and even a long fast sidespin
 ). Depends on the type of long pips and the style/abilities of the player as to how I mix these serves up. |
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Donic Waldner World Champion 1989 ZLC (Inner), Donic BlueStorm Pro (Red) Max, ????? (Black) 1.8 mm)
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a23096713 wrote: