Hitting to much, little spin in loop?

you should brush the upper part of the ball with your wrist. Then your able to create more spin on your loops. I guess your problem is that you contact the ball too flat, with too little wrist and fore am acceleration. The cause of this problem can be that your grip is to firm,too tense. Relax your grip!

Thanks a lot, Mark.

The looping curve is generally a semi-circle. Where would you contact the ball with the paddle?

Also, when would you fold your forearm in the swing plane? I read some chinese articles that said one should start to fold the forearm about a couple of inches before contacting the ball.

Also when to start to twist the wrist? 

I normally focus on making a straight line swing from the knee, through the contact point, and up to about shoulder high.   There is some curve as I start the swing forward with hip rotation until the racket comes around and clears my body.  There is also curve in the follow through after the racket reaches shoulder high.  I do not think too much about the curve parts since if I get the straight line part right they come out right naturally.

Remember that the kind of loop you have decided to hit, slow, normal, aggressive will determine the angle of the straight line swing.

This is a simplification of course.  But it is hard to describe just in words.

You want max blade speed at contact so any elbow closure or wrist action needs to start before contact, but not so early that it has already started to slow down at ball contact.  That couple of inches suggestion seems like a good starting point.  Experiment a little to get a feel for what gets the most spin for you.  Sometimes you have to think about doing it earlier or later because where you are thinking you do it, is not actually where it takes place. 

Mark

Thanks, Yogi.

I tried to do the third type: looping on the early drop from the highest point. To me, spin is the most fascinating part of table tennis. 

QUOTE=yogi_bear]there are about 3 types of looping vs. underspin generally based on timing.[/QUOTE]

If you don't have video for yourself, your self-awareness is limited.  Even if you don't want to share video, get video of yourself and analyze it.  We really can't help you but you really need to help yourself.

Kindof99,

I think you are doing something very similar to my problem that showed up in the video I posted in the "Loopkill against Block (the video)" thread.

When you start you backswing your shoulders rotate, but the arm and the racket do not.  Instead the arm (upper and forearm) move almost straight backward.  You start with your elbow well out in front of your shoulder line (imaginary line running between the right and left shoulders and extending out in each direction).  By the time you finish your shoulder rotation the elbow is well behind the now rotated shoulder line.  The elbow also has to move up as it goes back.  So at the end of your shoulder rotation (when the backswing should be finished) you still have to pull the forearm out to the side so that the Fh blade face is now facing toward the table.

If you look at your swing at 0.25 speed on you-tube you can see that during much of the backswing you can clearly see the complete Bh side (red) of your blade.  If you were rotating the arm out as the shoulders turned you would quickly see the edge (tip end) of the blade only (no red) and then start seeing the black Fh side start to appear.  By the time the shoulders turned about 3/4 of the amount you are doing you would already have the racket out to your side and the Fh blade facing the table.

With your extra arm movement backward and up, you have to start your forward swing with your arm (to get back in line with the shoulders) and this means most of the time you hit the ball with mainly arm motion, with the shoulder turn happening mostly after ball contact.  If you look closely at the start of your forward swing you can see that initially you have to swing slightly down (to get that raised elbow back into position) then you can start the normal approximately 45 deg upward swing.  This complicates your timing and robs you of some of your forward power.

You do not pull the elbow back and up as much as I do, so you are able to recover to a more normal swing than I do, but I think it still  is affecting you.  Shadow stroke and focus on not moving the arm at all relative to your upper body.  Just turn at the hips and as the shoulders turn the racket should first move almost straight to the right.  Then as it moves in a circle (around your point of rotation) it will start moving back and to the right.  Just before the end of the backswing (after following about a 1/4 circle path) the racket will be moving almost straight back and the Fh blade face should be at the perfect angle (facing the table) for ball contact.  You can continue with more rotation if you are flexible enough and want more power, but essentially at the end of the 1/4 circle you could stop.   If you do it this way you should find that you can get the racket into hitting position with less initial shoulder turn than you used before and that you can start your forward swing just by rotating the hips back in the opposite direction instead of having to make all the arm motion adjustments you are doing in the video.

I will try to make a demo video with both motions tomorrow if I can get my video cameral working.

I am getting much better results thinking of "rotate the racket out to the right" instead of thinking "take the racket back".  Maybe thinking that way to initiate your backswing will help you also.

Mark

I tried to brush more, but have not succeeded fixing my techniques.

To brush more, what should I do?

1), more wrist twist?

2), more elbow snap as NextLevel suggested?

3), more weight transfer from right to left?

4), more forward motion?

I actually started to have the feeling of brush the ball after I started this post. I used to have a linear looping motion, which resulting in almost no spin. 

You didn't flip your wrist a little - the wrist naturally does that if you are relaxed.

Your loop is not bad - you just are putting more into pace than you are into rotation/spin.  And to change it you can either brush more or contact the ball more off center.  I think contacting the ball off center will fit your mindset better, but you need to learn both.  The key to brushing is really to time the elbow snap so that it happens when you are close to the ball so that it throws the wrist forward and into/around the ball.

So I would say work on 

1) snapping the elbow closer to the ball.

2) work on looping more slowly but giving the ball more spin and less pace.  Look at the video from Skyline for how the wrist can do this.

3) work on looping hard but contacting the ball off center - hit it around the side top and not from behind. but still finish in the direction you want the ball to go in - don't produce sidespin.

All of those will give you more spin than you are getting now.

Nicely done Mark.  One thing I noticed in his video that was also apparent in your video is that for medium speed strokes, the problems aren't that obvious.  You might feel like you don't have the consistency you want, but it probably doesn't feel too bad.  However, when he or you go for a strong shot (power loop, loopkill, etc.), the attempt at extra power exaggerates the flaws in your stroke.  I suppose an analogy would be if your car shutters and chugs at 60 mph.  When you try to drive at 120 mph, the car is impossible to control and quickly crashes.

This is a good example of why we work on perfecting our mechanics are lower speeds, so there aren't those flaws at higher speeds.