|
|
|
Returning the long, slow dead floating serve |
Post Reply 
|
| Author | |
FinalFight 
Member 
Joined: 01/27/2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 54 |
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote Reply
 Topic: Returning the long, slow dead floating servePosted: 12/07/2015 at 5:53pm |
|
I played a player the other day (an 1800s two-winged looper with T05 on both sides) who had a lot of success using a really simple serve. He pretty much just used a very slow forehand topspin stroke during the service motion by hitting the upper part of the rubber, which resulted in a long, floating dead ball to my middle or forehand.
It kind of caught me off guard since I'm so used to the usual pendulum, backhand, or tomahawk type serves. But I guess partly why I struggled with this serve is because I'm more of a (double inverted) counterhitting player who drives on the forehand for placement and kill shots with more of a tennis style. I don't loop a whole lot on the forehand, but do on occasion; it's more of a hook spin than topspin from self-style development without any mentors. Though I tend to loop a whole lot from the backhand because the stroke has always felt more natural to me for some reason. But back to the serve. The lack of pace and spin on the serve really gave me trouble and I'd find myself either trying to awkwardly loop it or kill it. Neither really worked out very well and my poor returns did not put me in good position for the rest of the point. Any help would be appreciated. 
Edited by FinalFight - 12/07/2015 at 5:59pm |
|
 |
|
| Sponsored Links | |
|
|
|
Kolev
Gold Member 
Joined: 10/04/2004 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1529 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12/07/2015 at 6:40pm |
|
I guess he kept on serving like this(on you) cause probably he somehow saw that you are not moving enough to get quickly a position where you would be able to DRIVE the ball. Try to take the ball at the higest piont....Looping a dead ball can be tricky, smashing a long low ball ain't easy either
|
|
|
Hallmark Carbon Extreme (x3)
FH: D05/G1/RX BH: Z2/D64/Ω7Pro |
|
|
|
|
mjamja
Platinum Member 
Joined: 05/30/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2895 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12/07/2015 at 6:46pm |
|
It seems odd to me that he could hit a long dead serve with a "forehand topspin" stroke. As I understand it you have to start the ball with light underspin because each bounce (one on server side and one on receiver side) actually adds a light topspin to the ball. So the first question I would ask is did you consistently miss the serve in a particular way (hard into net, weak into net, long and straight, long but seemed to be dipping as it left the table, etc). Might have one consistent way when looping and another different one when killing it. Secondly, do you think it might have been a light topspin serve instead of a dead serve? Mark
|
|
|
|
|
FinalFight
Member
Joined: 01/27/2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 54 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12/07/2015 at 8:41pm |
|
I guess "forehand topspin stroke" may not be the best way to describe it. He was pretty much just using the kind of stroke I use when I'm returning the ball to the server in between points. It was a pretty relaxed motion and he was gracing the top of the bat every time, so I was assuming he was going for a deadball. I'm forgetting exactly how high the balls were bouncing on my side but they weren't as low as the usual backspin serves I'm used to. I didn't have problems hitting the table when returning - it was more that my returns were weak and he seemed to anticipate them well to construct the third ball for a strong loop. In other words, I couldn't come up with a smart return that would foil his intention for using the serve and wasn't sure which kind of shot to use and what pace to hit the ball.
Edited by FinalFight - 12/07/2015 at 8:46pm |
|
|
|
|
MindTrip
Super Member 
Joined: 02/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 412 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12/07/2015 at 8:41pm |
|
Low spin balls are unstable by definition. Swinging hard for a drive/kill shot will yield inferior results, most likely being the ball diving into the net or going long. A lighter stroke would be your best option for this particular kind of service.
I've seen many players do this when I serve them a low spin ball. The pace of the ball coming off my racket seems fast on the first and second bounce, but slows down greatly before a third bounce. Most opponents notice the pace and rush their shot, causing poor stroke selection.
Anyway, these 3 types of hits may bring the results you are after. A soft block at a wide angle. "Rolling" the ball which is kind of like catching it with a perpendicular racket and rolling the ball with a slow flick style follow through. Also a controlled pace loop would work well in this situation. I use the first and third options quite frequently and they often times lead to weak returns by the opponent. |
|
|
Apolonia ZLC
Donic Z3 Andro R42 |
|
|
|
|
FinalFight
Member
Joined: 01/27/2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 54 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12/07/2015 at 8:51pm |
|
Controlled pace sounds like the kind of shot I should have played. Since this guy was a great 'fast' rallying type of attacker, I probably gave him what he wanted with the long returns since he was baiting me with what looked like easy put away balls. Surprising that I've been playing for years and am not used to dealing with this kind of serve from an attacker by now.
|
|
|
|
|
sandiway
Gold Member
Joined: 04/15/2010 Status: Offline Points: 1554 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12/08/2015 at 12:48am |
|
The answer is always spin unless the serve floats too high, in which case you should kill it.
On that note, once I was playing a coach in Shenzhen, China, and she complimented me on my fake spin slow loop return of serve. (There is always something wrong if a Chinese coach compliments me.) She said it's really good you could fake it so well. She was fooled. I said I wasn't trying to fake the spin. Turns out my Tenergy 05 had a dead spot...
|
|
|
|
|
mhnh007
Platinum Member
Joined: 11/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12/08/2015 at 9:39am |
|
I have a same problem with half long floating serve (FH flip is not my strong play LOL), my problem is I that can not attack hard on it with high percentage, and if I don't attack hard, I will surely get attacked on the 3rd ball, so it causes to rush the return a lot, and make mistake.
|
|
|
|
|
cole_ely
Premier Member 
Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12/08/2015 at 11:03am |
|
I struggle a lot with these because I never had a robot or partner that could really feed these well to me.
|
|
|
Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
|
|
|
|
NextLevel
Forum Moderator 
Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12/08/2015 at 11:13am |
|
I may miss them in a match but it is a matter of practice. If they come long, you can loop or loop kill them. Just accept that you need to upgrade your loop and your reading skills and the rest is practice.
|
|
|
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
|
|
|
|
geardaddy
Super Member
Joined: 11/14/2013 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 402 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12/08/2015 at 11:13am |
|
I've had a lot of success with a no-spin version of my pendulum serve. I'm constantly surprised at how even some higher level players don't see it very well. The most common missed return of this serve is that they dump it in the net. I believe the reason is that they think that the serve has some spin on it, and thus they try to push or block the serve back utilizing the (non-existent) spin on the ball, and it just drops short into the net as a result.
I've also found that certain people are not fooled by this at lower levels, especially those that have some level of proficiency in spinning the ball. Those that do not have a lot of proficiency to spin the ball can be handcuffed by a no-spin ball because in order to attack a no-spin ball they cannot just use the spin on the ball and instead *must* generate all of the spin with their stroke. Also at a certain higher level of player this serve will be attacked big time if they see the no-spin correctly (just like a underspin serve that goes long off of the table) with a powerful loop-drive. I think the reason that it is effective is mostly because people are not used to returning no-spin balls in general. The fact is that you can attack them with a slow loop or a loop drive in a very similar manner as an underspin ball, just that you have to adjust slightly in how you come through the ball. Most people do not practice or train against no-spin balls, so a common mistake is trying to loop the ball like it has underspin on it, and this often results with them hitting it long off the end of the table because they are simply trying to "lift" the ball too much with their looping stroke.
|
|
|
|
|
Post Reply
|
|
Tweet
|
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd. |
Topic Options