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Review: ITC Powercell and Premier - Test concluded |
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ThePongProfessor
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/17/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1528 |
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Posted: 01/16/2016 at 3:05am |
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Dear MyTT forum members –
The recently established Korean brand ITC has graciously made two composite blades and two rubbers available for testing, more specifically the Premier XF and Premier XR blades, and the Powercell RS and Powercell MP rubbers. The blades come with a ST handle, while the rubbers are black 2.1 mm. You only have to pay for the shipping (in order to send the blades/rubbers to the next tester on the list). Please send me a PM if you are interested in testing any of these blades and rubbers. This test will be restricted to US- and Canada-based members in order to avoid mailing delays. Lists of testers will be posted below. Conditions for testing: 1) post an honest a review on this thread within a week of receiving the test blades/rubbers, including a brief description of your playing style, regular setup and (estimated) USATT rating to provide contextual background for your review; specify the blade/rubber that you are testing as a headline in bold font, 2) keep your testing below 2.5 hours in order to allow as many forum members as possible to test the rubbers in near-new conditions, 3) you shall not boost the rubbers or sand or lacquer/seal the blades, 4) use only easily-removable non-VOC glue to attach the rubbers (i.e., no vulcanization liquid, speed glue, or Elmer’s rubber cement, 5) after complete testing, please wrap the rubbers using stretch-tite or plastic wraps to preserve the quality of the topsheet and place the blades in their original box, and send it to the next person on the list (or to me, if you were the last one on the list). _____________ LIST OF TESTERS Premier XF blade patrickhrdlicka - done ndotson - done <<< TEST OF BLADE HAS CONCLUDED >>>
Premier XR blade patrickhrdlicka - done ndotson - done <<< TEST OF BLADE HAS CONCLUDED >>> Powercell RS rubber patrickhrdlicka - done ndotson - done <<< TEST OF RUBBER HAS CONCLUDED >>> patrickhrdlicka - done ndotson - done <<< TEST OF BLADE HAS CONCLUDED >>> Edited by patrickhrdlicka - 04/14/2016 at 9:12pm |
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Bran
Super Member Joined: 06/18/2013 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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ndotson
Super Member Joined: 08/22/2014 Location: Spokane, WA Status: Offline Points: 176 |
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Thanks for putting this together patrickhrdlicka! I've enjoyed using Adidas equipment in the past, so I'm looking forward to testing these blades and rubbers.
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Korbel
H3 / Curl P1 |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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Yeah, that's a shame. If there's any possibility of a Euro leg at the end of the US testing, I'd be prepared to cover some of the postage costs. But if not, I'm still super excited to read the testing results anyway.
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ThePongProfessor
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/17/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1528 |
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Review: ITC Powercell RS and ITC Powercell MP (black, 2.1) As a fan of Adidas’ table tennis products – I have played with P7 and Tenzone Ultra SF in my FH, Blaze Spin short pips in my BH, and used the Challenger Force blade – I was disappointed by Adidas’ exit from the sport. Although, I have managed to find reasonable replacement rubbers, I was pleased to read the following comments on the P7 substitute thread by MyTT member yogi_bear: “ITC will be releasing a rubber similar to P7 but with a modified characteristic that you will enjoy… They have not taken over the old Adidas company. It is a new company with the same rubber and racket designer. The designer said the P7 needs a little improvement in terms of hard smashes. So basically, the issues that P7 or Tenzone will be addressed and improved although the quality is not an issue ever since.” The prospect of an updated P7/Tenzone sounded very interesting, so here we are. The marketing material describes the Powercell RS as having extreme spin performance and very precise ball control for the spin-offensive or allround-type player, whereas the Powercell MP is described as having balance between very high speed and very high spin performance. In other words, RS is described as being slower, spinnier, and having a harder feel than the MP. In fact, the RS is described as having a feel similar to a Chinese sticky rubber with higher speed, while the MP is a more euro-like rubber with built in catapult. Both rubbers are listed as having a sponge density of 48 degrees. My initial inspection of the rubbers: The black 2.1 RS and MP weigh 72 and 66 g uncut, respectively (52 and 46 g, respectively, cut to the 157x150 ITC Premier XF blade). Compared to the rubbers from the recent tabletennis11.com test, the RS and MP are the heaviest and lightest rubbers, respectively. Both sponges have tiny pores. The RS feels very hard, significantly harder than the MP. Both of the rubbers dome extensively and smell very ‘rubbery’. The topsheet is shiny, without tack, and just like Stiga’s Airoc Astro series it is profiled. There are ~13 pips per 5 cm of rubber in the horizontal direction, and ~21-22 pips per 5 cm of rubber in the vertical direction. Playing impressions: Initially, I tried these rubbers on the ITC Premier XF blade, which I have reviewed in a subsequent post: it is a wonderful 5+2 ply Off- composite blade with a relatively soft feel, unless fully engaged, in which case the composite layers provide additional kick, especially from mid-distance. Frankly, I did not care for the feel of either Powercell rubber on this blade. Both of the rubbers felt blunt and disengaged from the blade, slow and without any kick to them (especially true for the RS). The control in touch play (short serves, short pushes) was great, but topspins were without bite and lifting backspin required a lot of effort that my frame couldn’t muster. Disappointed by the initial impressions, I decided to put the rubbers on the ITC Premier XR 5+2 ply carbon blade instead (reviewed in subsequent post), which is 1-2 notches faster than the XF and has a substantially harder feel. This made all the difference for me. Touch shots were still great, but now I felt there was a better connection between the blade and the rubber on aggressive shots, with a nice clicking sound. I was able to execute FH topspins with much greater pace and very good control; flat hitting close to the table or from mid-distance was a breeze, especially with the MP, which has a built-in catapult. The throw on the RS is lower than on the MP, which conversely is a little lower than for T05 or Tibhar’s MX-P (similar to Andro’s Rasant Powergrip). In general, I could impart more spin on my serves and 3rd ball attacks with the MP than the RS, most likely due to the softer overall feel of the MP, allowing for easier penetration into the sponge. Of note: judging by a number of unusual errors on serve returns against my regular training partner, I would say that both rubbers are relatively sensitive to incoming spin on serves. I prefer the MP over the RS. The former is faster, spinnier, and easier to control in aggressive play than the RS. I can’t help to think that MP is to RS, what Tibhar’s MX-P is to MX-S, except that the Powercell rubbers are ~10-15% slower than the Evolution series. RS (and MX-S) requires more effort to generate speed and spin, whereas MP (and MX-P) is easier to play with (remember the marketing material?). The MP reminds me of a spinner and more controllable Stiga Airoc Astro M, whereas the RS might be more suitable for those players wishing to transition from hard Chinese rubbers to more Euro/Jap-styles. In my opinion, both Powercell rubbers require a fast hard blade in order for the desirable high-control offensive characteristics to become apparent. Finally, neither of the Powercell rubbers have the same ‘easy spin’ and ‘easy lift’ characteristics as the old Adidas P7 – the throw is lower, and the surface less tacky. Evaluation using the TableTennisDb grading system. RS: Speed: 8.4, Spin: 8.6, Control: 8.5, Tackiness: 1.0, Throw Angle: 4.0, Weight: 6.5, Sponge Hardness: 7.0, Gears: 8.0 MP: Speed: 8.7, Spin: 8.8, Control: 8.9, Tackiness: 1.0, Throw Angle: 5.0, Weight: 4.0, Sponge Hardness: 5.5, Gears: 8.5 The Powercell rubbers can be purchased directly from ITC. Edited by patrickhrdlicka - 05/15/2016 at 2:38pm |
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ThePongProfessor
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/17/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1528 |
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Review: ITC Premier XF and ITC Premier XR blades (ST)
In the two years since my comeback to the sport, I, like so many others, have been searching for that unique “speed glue feel” from the 80s and 90s. The journey towards this end has involved many different rubbers (P7, Rasant Grip/Powergrip, T05fx/05/64/80, Calibra LT, Tenzone Ultra SF, concluding with MX-P) and blades (Andro Temper Tech OFF-/OFF, Joola Rossi Emotion, Donic Waldner Legend Carbon and, more recently, Adidas Challenge Force and Nexy Zealot). On the blade side, I have been looking for a something that provided excellent touch in the short game, serves and looping (TT OFF- and ACF), while providing adequate power for mid-distance play (TT OFF, JRE, DWLC). The best compromise, so far, has been the Nexy Zealot blade. I was pleasantly surprised to find the Premier XF and Premier XR in the package that I received from ITC for review, but at the same time also a little skeptical, since I have had a complicated relationship with carbon blades in the past: I like the extra power and bigger sweet spot that they offer, but cannot stand the glassy and disengaged feel that they transmit. Accordingly, I had low expectations going into this test. The OFF- rated Premier XF is a 5+2 ply blade with a thick central ply (burnt kiri?), followed by a layer of BlueFlex fiber made of ‘light metal’, and thin layers of Ayous (?) and Eche. The latter is also known as ‘white ash’ and used in the popular Nittaku Violin. The OFF rated Premier XR seems to have a similar ply composition, except that faster ‘RedFlex Carbon’ is used as the composite layer. Both blades have a thickness of 5.9 mm and a head size of 157x150 mm. The blade has a more compact shape near the handle (not so wide across), which is optimized for more power. The ST handles are very comfortable and both blades feature a fresh contemporary design. The quality of the craftsmanship is very high. Both blades are exquisitely balanced and feel 6-8 g lighter than their 90-91 g weight. The marketing material and technical specifications pages (which are excellent and worth a read), promise a feeling that is more natural than in other carbon/composite blades, since the composite layer is further away from the surface ply. The XF is described as the softer version of the XR suitable for a spin-offensive strategy, while the XR is suitable for those players wanting more power on their topspins. ITC, as well as fellow MyTT member yogi_bear, have already posted beautiful photos of these blades, and I therefore decided to post a couple of videos instead. Playing impressions: I used a 2.1 mm MX-P in my FH and a 1.8 mm RITC 802-40 short pip in my BH as the main rubbers for this test. I started out with the Premier XF and was immediately sold. Wonderful balance and outstanding control on all shots, allowing me to make shots like back in the speed glue era. The blade has many gears. The speed varies from ALL+ and soft feel on serves and touch shots to OFF and crisp feel when fully engaged. FH loops have a high arc, providing extra safety over the net, without resulting in short balls – lifting backspin is accordingly very easy. And, combined with the MX-P, it feels close to speed-glued setup from the 80s/90s – unadulterated fun. FH flat hits from mid-distance are a breeze. The large sweet spot allowed for excellent consistency, even when making shots out of balance. My BH short pips felt very controlled both when playing offensively or chopping, though perhaps lacking a smidge speed. Only one thing to say: well done ITC The Premier XR is 10-15% faster, and has a noticeably harder feel in all aspects of the game. The blade still has a wonderful feel allowing for excellent touch. FH loops have a flatter arc, resulting in more balls getting caught at the top of the net. The combo with MX-P is at the upper limit of what I can handle, but I have no doubt that players with better and more consistent technique will be able to wield this combination to perfection. I preferred the harder feel of the XR for my BH short pips, which came flatter and deadlier than with the XF. Defensive chopping is still possible but obviously not as good as with the XF. Again, well done ITC As mentioned in my review of the Powercell rubbers in an earlier post on this thread, I think that the XF works best with very fast euro-style rubbers (slower rubbers don’t pair well), whereas there is greater latitude for rubber selection with the XR, as long as you keep in mind that this is a fast blade. I, for one, love both blades (with the appropriate rubber selection), and club members who had a hit with these blades were equally impressed. Megaspin sells these blades. They are not cheap, but they might just be worth it. [edit]: Megaspin currently has a 20% sale on these blades. Reviewer background and testing conditions: I am an allround-offensive player with a ~2150 USATT rating. YinHe 40+ *** balls were used. After 15 min of warmup and light drills, I played ~25 sets with each setup against my usual training partners. Edited by patrickhrdlicka - 05/15/2016 at 2:19pm |
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vic#74
Super Member Joined: 07/26/2010 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 442 |
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Very informative. Thnx!
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ITC Premier XR
Nittaku Sieger Pk50 Tibhar Evolution EL-S |
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ndotson
Super Member Joined: 08/22/2014 Location: Spokane, WA Status: Offline Points: 176 |
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Review: ITC Premier XF blade
https://www.megaspin.net/store/default.asp?pid=itc-premier-xf For testing this blade, I used MX-P with max sponge for FH and Feint Long 3 with 1.3 sponge for BH. This is the same rubber setup I use on my back up blade - OSP Virtuoso. When I first gripped the blade, it felt like I was holding something that was produced with great care...a similar feeling like I get when I hold my OSP Virtuoso. Great balance with the rubbers glued on. FH - Looping is very comfortable with high levels of topspin equal to or greater than my Virtuoso. I can't say the control is better than my normal blade, but it is very good and there is indeed an additional gear available due to the synthetic layer. The extra gear makes this blade a lot a fun for offensive strokes, but I also found it very easy to block and change the pace if necessary. Counter-driving and hitting was a lot better than I thought it would be. The blade maintains an excellent crisp wood feel when hitting, in spite of the synthetic layer. There is some vibration but not a lot. Overall, the blade works very well for my FH game...I may even like the XF a bit more than the OSP Virtuoso for my FH. BH - This is the make or brake with every blade for me, as I'm a modern defender/chopper. FL3 is a great LP rubber for chopping and also for some attacking strokes due to its grippiness. With the XF, I was able to chop with good feel and dwell time, but it was definitely more difficult to keep the ball low over the net. As I adjusted, I noticed my practice partner was having more difficulty with my chops as they were a bit faster and had more backspin than with my usual OSP blade. I was even able to pull off some deadly topspin attacking shots. Overall, the blade is fun for my LP chopping style, but the control can be touchy. I popped more balls up than usual, which resulted in easy kills for partner. Conclusion: This is an excellent blade for an allround offensive player. I think it also would serve as a great blade for a modern defender who uses LPs aggressively to chop and attack. Probably not great for pushblocker types who need to slow the game down with precise, low placed balls. The blade is currently 20% off at Megaspin.net....which I think is a great deal for this blade. I may pick one up. Reviewer info: I play a modern defense style. My rating is currently ~1750. My usual setup is Korbel with T05 max FH and Feint Long III 1.3 BH. My back up setup is OSP Virtuoso with MX-P max FH and Feint Long III 1.3 BH. Edited by ndotson - 02/05/2016 at 1:06am |
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Korbel
H3 / Curl P1 |
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yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7219 |
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the XC, XR, XF and XQ are on a special sale in megaspin.net now
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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS
ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
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ndotson
Super Member Joined: 08/22/2014 Location: Spokane, WA Status: Offline Points: 176 |
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Review: ITC Premier XR blade
https://www.megaspin.net/store/default.asp?pid=itc-premier-xr For testing this blade I used MX-P with max sponge on FH and Feint Long 3 with 1.3 sponge on BH. Like the XF, the craftsmanship of this blade is top notch. It feels great in my hand. FH - The speed is greater and throw angle lower than the XF. It still has an excellent feel despite being a composite blade...I’ve hit with other composite blades and the XR seems to have nicer feedback and touch than the others I’ve tried. Looping is truly great with this blade and rubber combo. It’s faster than anything I’ve regularly used, but miraculously, I was able to control my loops just as well as with my usual setup. Due to the low angle, I was able to stay close to the table and rip easy winners. BH - This is the deal breaker for my style. It’s just a bit too fast for my chopping game. However, Feint Long 3 is an excellent attacking LP. So, I used my BH to hit and attack with great results...when I could keep it on the table. There were times when I could chop very low, with heavy backspin, and these shots were virtually un-returnable for my regular practice partners. If I wanted to use this blade for my current style, it would take a long time to develop the touch necessary to control it. I would be better off switching to an attacking game with medium or short pips. Conclusion: A great blade. For players with a forward moving, aggressive topspin and looping game, this blade is a top choice. Could be a usable blade for a modern defender, but you may have control problems. Pip players who use their pips to hit attacking shots may also really like this blade. Reviewer info: I play a modern defense style. My rating is currently ~1750. My usual setup is Korbel with T05 max FH and Feint Long III 1.3 BH. My back up setup is OSP Virtuoso with MX-P max FH and Feint Long III 1.3 BH. Edited by ndotson - 02/24/2016 at 10:42pm |
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Korbel
H3 / Curl P1 |
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ndotson
Super Member Joined: 08/22/2014 Location: Spokane, WA Status: Offline Points: 176 |
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Review: ITC Powercell RS and MP rubbers
Reviewer info: I’m a 1750 level modern defender. My current setup is a Korbel ST with T05 max FH and TSP Curl P1r 1.5 BH. The blade I used to test both of these rubbers was my Donic Defplay Senso FL, which is a blade that I’ve tested many rubbers with. RS: This rubber felt nice right off the bat as it is relatively hard and paired nicely with the Defplay. Warming up with counter-drives and loops was nice, especially close to the table. The throw angle was relatively low, so moving further away from the table required more effort in my strokes when compared to a rubber like T05. When I would fully engage in a non-lazy looping stroke, it felt like the amount of spin generated was massive. My usual practice partner had a difficult time blocking for me at first due to the heavy spin but he eventually adjusted (or I got tired and lazy with my strokes). I found blocking and touch-play to be very easy with this rubber. I could produce good enough spin on pushes and keep them short if necessary. Fishing shots away from the table weren’t ideal…no easy spin from this rubber like I can get with T05. Overall: I think this is a rubber that would work nicely for modern defender (or attacking player) who doesn’t like to stray too far from the table. The Globe 999 users of the world may like this rubber as a slightly faster, spinnier alternative. MP: The surface of the MP rubber felt less tacky than its RS counterpart. When warming up, my hits had a nice pop with a noticeable catapult effect that wasn’t available with the RS. Looping was good, with a throw angle just slightly lower than T05. For the majority of my strokes (loops, smashes, fishing, pushes, etc.), everything felt pretty good…but not special. It’s possible that the Defplay Senso is a little too slow for this rubber to really come alive. Overall: As a previous user of Adidas P7 and TZU, I had high anticipations for this rubber. I was hoping for something special, but simply got a very decent rubber that fits nicely in the growing group of next generation tensors. Of the rubbers I tested on a previous forum test here; the MP felt most similar to the Donic Acuda Blue P1…which isn’t a bad thing…it’s just not a game changer. |
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Korbel
H3 / Curl P1 |
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Geronimo_33
Member Joined: 07/07/2010 Location: Lithuania Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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ITC blades and rubbers at TTmode.com - full collection available. You will enjoy the conditions
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Crowsfeather
Super Member Joined: 08/03/2013 Location: Thailand Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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Now they come with 45 degree version.
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I'm no longer an EJ and I'm proud .
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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The Premier XF has long been on my blade bucket list, and I finally got my hands on one last week. The reviews above (and yogi's, over on his own thread) cover things really well. It's a great blade IMO - there are a lot of things going on in the construction (hard outer, soft inner, "light metal" blueflex gubbins), but the end result is solid. Mine is 92g in weight but has good balance - feels like the handle is pretty heavy.
The hard outer gives an initial sharp feel on contact, but gives way quickly on harder strokes to the softer inner workings. This gives a very precise response on touch shots and passive blocks, but when looping hard the response becomes a lot softer and the speed doesn't become overwhelming. For a close-in player like myself, this is a great fit. Short, passive play is simple and direct. Flat hitting is precise with enough power to get the job done (with softer rubbers it gives a massive CRAACK sound on hard hits - good fun). Looping is very forgiving with a high arc - opening up against backspin is probably the real stand-out strength. It feels slightly stiff overall and has a very uniform response across the blade face without feeling too numb. Whatever blueflex is, it does a good job here (if it's a woven metallic fibre, it could be some sort of processed aluminium perhaps). I think the main weakness is looping from distance. Even at 92g with a composite layer it runs out of gas in the top end. I was able to land loops consistently but they were higher and shorter than I was used to, which in today's game invites an easy counter. This isn't a huge issue for me when I play mostly close-in, and considering my average level, but it's the one area that stands out in comparison with the usual composite suspects. But there is no free lunch - such amazingly easy performance for controlled looping comes with the cost of outright power. You could compensate with a faster rubber of course, or one with a lot of top-end catapult. The obvious analogy to make here is with other white ash blades - violin and lissom being the obvious ones. As others have already said, the XF does feel like a reinforced, stiffer variation on those, while retaining the sharp feel and good loop ability. Given the speed range and nice wood feel the XF offers it slots in somewhere around the Donic WSC/WSUC zone, but is stiffer and has that extra additional hardness from the top ply.
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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vic#74
Super Member Joined: 07/26/2010 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 442 |
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Andy, you should try XR blade. It's certainly should and have more power. Overall ITC's are good and pretty much undervalued blades.
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ITC Premier XR
Nittaku Sieger Pk50 Tibhar Evolution EL-S |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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I think the XR would probably sort out the power from distance quibble, but in all honesty I think the XF probably suits my style more anyway. I'd rather have the slower top gear, but I guess the XR would suit a wide range of more mobile two-winged loopers.
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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vic#74
Super Member Joined: 07/26/2010 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 442 |
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Yes, we are
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ITC Premier XR
Nittaku Sieger Pk50 Tibhar Evolution EL-S |
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sspark80
Member Joined: 07/02/2015 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 52 |
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HI, Andy. What rubbers did you use on the XF?
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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First session was Hybrid K1 Plus and Rozena, second session swapped Rozena for Rasanter V42, third session swapped the V42 for Rasanter R42.
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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Crowsfeather
Super Member Joined: 08/03/2013 Location: Thailand Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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I own premier XR 90g FL
It is powerful enough for anything though it is not pure offence+++ type. XF is quite dead to me it's like playing with 5 classic plies with more harder stable feel. But XF is great in good hand just not for me I need more power. XR is one blade you should never hate it, everyone who try XR say it has good catchy feeling and respond every hit. Going well with both Euro and Chinese rubber. I recently change Evo MXP to H3 neo 40 on FH(provincial) 2months ago, it's hardness and crispness suit Chinese rubber well. Basically XR should be promoted more, people underated it due to Brand.
ITC powercell is quite dead on low gear. Still a good rubber. Top sheet durability is not long as I expect. |
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I'm no longer an EJ and I'm proud .
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arg0
Platinum Member Joined: 07/22/2009 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2023 |
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How is the balance of XF w.r.t. Violin and Lissom? I'm always open to consider a blade that has similar characteristics to Violin but a slightly higher top speed. Lissom is such a blade, and it has been my main blade for several years. Recently, I've started playing more with Violin, though, because I appreciate its neutral balance, while Lissom is more head-heavy. How does ICT Premier XF feel? Rather centre-balanced or head-heavy? I know this is relative, so a comparison with Violin and/or Lissom would be most welcome. Edit: typo Edited by arg0 - 07/22/2017 at 4:41pm |
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