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Another Rating Estimation Thread! |
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mickd 
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 Topic: Another Rating Estimation Thread!Posted: 03/13/2016 at 12:58pm |
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I actually found the last few threads like this very interesting. I know the rating estimates vary greatly between people, and at my level it doesn't really matter anyway, but I'm curious to see what people think. If you have any comments as well, please feel free to post!
Here's a set from each of the 4 matches I played on Saturday. I'll post details about the opponents, too. The matches aren't particularly high level, so sorry about that! I'm the guy in the blue Adidas shirt (sorry, Nike is too expensive)! Match 1. History: Played against her 2 times prior. Won one, 3-2 and lost one 1-3. This match I lost 2-3. Rubbers: Inverted on both sides. Note: The reason why I lost this time and last time was because she has this no spin serve that looks like backspin, and when I push it, it goes high every time. I think I can read it now after examining the video, but I couldn't read it fast enough at the time. You'll see her do it for the last 2 points of the set. Match 2. History: Never played him before. Lost the match 1-3. Rubbers: Short (or medium) pips on the forehand (red) with no sponge. Inverted on the backhand. Note: Twiddles his racket a lot. Note: I need to get used to his pips. I always end up pushing it high, or looping it over. I can see him twiddle and use the pips sometimes, but I don't make the correct adjustments. I think the next time I play him, I'll be a little easier. Match 3. History: Never played him before. Lost the match 0-3. Rubbers: Inverted on both sides. Note: I found it really hard to read his serves. He has some nice serves. He's a lot better than me so it was pretty one sided. He hits the ball very close to his body, and while you can see the contact from the video, from my angle I couldn't easily. Match 4. History: Played him 3 times before. Won twice (3-1, 3-2) and lost once (2-3). This time I won 3-0. Rubbers: Short pips with no sponge on the forehand (red), and inverted on the backhand. Note: The balls he hits with his short pips always dropped really fast (his swing and contact sound makes me think it's going to come flying at me), so I had a lot of trouble timing it before. But this time I'm not sure why, but I was able to hit them all. Maybe I got used to it. Edited by mickd - 03/13/2016 at 1:03pm |
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rocketman222
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Joined: 01/06/2007 Location: Walnut Creek,CA Status: Offline Points: 1152 |
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Posted: 03/13/2016 at 1:24pm |
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1750 USATT
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pongfugrasshopper
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Posted: 03/13/2016 at 10:14pm |
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1400 - 1500
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mts388
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Posted: 03/13/2016 at 10:20pm |
I agree. |
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naijachief
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Posted: 03/13/2016 at 10:21pm |
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I like your game but your return of serve needs improvement.
1550-1650 |
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who no know go know
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TT newbie
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Posted: 03/13/2016 at 10:41pm |
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I can rate your camera and table you played on: both 2880.
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mickd
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Posted: 03/13/2016 at 11:15pm |
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Thanks for all the comments everyone.
I'm actually quite happy to see ratings so high. I'd be very satisfied with anything around 1500 at the moment. My goal is to get close to, or possibly even break 2000 by next year. So far I've been playing for a little over 2 years. I'll be a difficult road, that's for sure. Though recently I feel like I've been improving at a decent rate. I did have a massive slump a few months ago, and I think taking a week off really helped overcome that. Return of serve has always been a difficult part of my game. I've been recording most my games and some practice sessions, and I actively review them. A lot of the time I only understand a serve after watching it in slow motion. Most the places I go to have decent tables. Actually the place I'm going to tonight has much better tables (at least they look really nice) than in the videos. Most places are quite spacious, too. A big advantage of being in a country that plays regular table tennis. If anyone is curious, the camera I'm using is the Sony Alpha a6000. It's a really nice camera for it's price range. Not really designed for videos, but it does the job well enough :)
Edited by mickd - 03/13/2016 at 11:18pm |
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mjamja
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Posted: 03/13/2016 at 11:24pm |
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Is anyone else amazed that the OP played two matches against players with SP OX forehands and inverted Bh? I do not think I have ever seen a player with that combination. Know of one player with SP OX backhand and inverted Fh but that is as close as I have ever seen. So as not to completely hijack the thread: Video looks like about 1200-1300 level play. With my normal 200 point underestimation probably in the 1400-1500 range. Mark |
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BH-Man
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Posted: 03/14/2016 at 3:03am |
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Hard to tell. Start you out at 1300 and see where you go from there.
Your 4th and final opponent seemed to have a minor rotator cuff tear. Nice to see you alo like to do rock paper scissors to see who serves first, I like that much better.
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Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
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mickd
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Posted: 03/14/2016 at 3:53pm |
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Yeah, Mark. There are actually quite a few people with unconventional rubbers where I play. At the place I usually go on Monday nights, there's a girl who uses short pips for her forehand (with a sponge though), but practice was cancelled. I was planning to record that match and post it here.
Surprisingly, I actually end up playing more people with short pips forehands (with and without sponges) than long pips backhands. @BH-Man. I really like doing scissors paper rock, too. We also do it at tournaments here. I'm not sure when it changes to a coin toss, but at least at the prefecture-wide level, people still do it. Anymore tips, rating estimates welcomed :)
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pgpg
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Posted: 03/14/2016 at 8:35pm |
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I was going to say 1700 after the first video, which had some nice extended rallies. You do make more mistakes in the other ones, though, and that's after discounting for pips in some of them.
So yes, around 1400-1500 could be about right, assuming you are immune to tournament pressure
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USATT: ~1810
Butterfly Defense Alpha ST - H3 Neo - Cloud&Fog OX |
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mickd
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Posted: 03/14/2016 at 9:11pm |
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Thanks guys. I think I'm progressing at a decent rate if I'm getting to about the 1400-1500 level now!
The 2nd and 3rd videos showed my worse sets of the match. The 1st and 4th were typical sets. I wanted to show a balance :) Give me a few more months and I think I'll be able to beat the 1st lady consistently, and the 2nd guy in a tight game. The 3rd guy will require more time! If you guys would like to see a few more matches (alas from a month and a half ago), please check out this thread I made awhile back. There are 3 matches (as well as other random videos) in there. Though I've been working on improving various things since then. Any other estimates or advice welcome :)
Edited by mickd - 03/14/2016 at 9:15pm |
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SmackDAT
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Posted: 03/15/2016 at 4:00am |
Just a quick note: I think it's true that no-one can say that they are good at service return, as there will always be against better players with more deceptive serves. Since you've only been playing for two years, I'm assuming you are facing better or just different players - that's probably the main reason you are "weak" at service return. Once you have been accustomed to a particular type of serve, you will likely become stronger and stronger at returning, so give it time (and a lot of practice) and you service return will improve. |
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smackman
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Posted: 03/15/2016 at 9:40pm |
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You can now tell your friends what your very roughly, estimated, guesstimated, approximated United States of American rating, given to you from random players from around the World to be officially to be
1200 or 1300 or 1400 or 1450 or 1500 or 1550 or 1650 or 1700 or 1750 or table and camera at 2880 What system do you have in Japan? |
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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
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mickd
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Posted: 03/16/2016 at 12:57am |
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Thanks SmackDAT. I have a lot more confidence now compared to a year ago. A lot of it comes from experience, and a lot of it comes from having better technique to limit the 3rd ball attack of the opponent.
@smackman, no need to be sarcastic here. If that wasn't your intention, I apologies. As I said at the top of the OP, I found the previous threads interesting, and really, I just wanted to promote some discussion on the forum. I knew the ratings would vary greatly, and I have no intention of telling anyone anyway (all my friends who play table tennis are Japanese). As for your other question, we don't have a points system where I live. I've only been in team tournaments so far, so I'll explain how those work. My local tournament (run in my city, but not limited to the people living in my city) has 7 divisions. Division 1 being the highest, and 7 being the lowest. Males and females compete together. Some teams are all females, some are all males, but most are mixed. Most people in division 7 are middle school students who have played for <2 years. But anyone can be in there, including new teams. Each division probably has 30+ people competing. To advance a division, your team has to come first in the division, and the next tournament, you'll play in a division higher. Similarly, if you come last, you'll go down a division. There are 3 of these tournaments a year. I've played in divisions 4, 5 and 6. At my current skill level, I'll win about half (or just over half) my games in division 5. Then there's the prefecture wide tournament I go to (twice a year). It's only for adults, so no students. This one is also a team competition, with males and females playing together. It's split into about 30 divisions (I forgot the exact number), where division 1 is the strongest. Each division also has about 40 people, so it's quite a big tournament. Last time I competed in the division one above the weakest (so if it was 30 divisions, I was in division 29), and I won half my matches. This tournament is the same where if you want to advance, you need to come first in your division (though I think they're going to change it to the top 2 teams in each division). Competition is tough, and there are a lot of people playing. Besides that, there are no real rankings or ratings. This is another reason why I find the topic interesting. I hope you don't mind the discussion, keeping in mind that all this is just for my own curiosity. If you'd like to make an estimate, have some advice, or just any general questions about anything I've said, feel free!
Edited by mickd - 03/16/2016 at 1:00am |
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mickd
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Posted: 03/16/2016 at 12:13pm |
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I didn't get to practice on Monday and Tuesday (the places were on holiday for the week), but today I had a chance to play 3 games. I would have liked to have recorded the first game, but I didn't ask beforehand. It was a doubles game. Me and one of my students vs 2 adults (who have a lot more experience than both of us). We ended up losing 0-3, but were able to get to deuce once, and 8 or 9 on another set. It was actually a weird game because my partner had long pips on her backhand, one of my opponents had short pips on her backhand, and the other had long pips on his backhand.
After the match, I ended up playing one of the two doubles opponents. I really didn't think I would win, so I was very surprised to take the game 3-0. This was my first time playing her one on one. She had trouble returning my serves, and I found her mostly top/side spin serves really easy to attack. She plays in a division higher than me. She said she doesn't have much experience against left handers, so I think the opposite side spin was putting her off. We spent some time after the match for her to practice receiving the trouble serves. Here is the last set. All 3 sets looked very similar (besides I missed both my opening serves in the first 2 sets). She uses inverted on her forehand, and short pips on her backhand. The 3rd match I played was a doubles match with 3 middle school kids. The boys came up to me and asked me for a doubles game. The girl was free and next to me, so we ended up teaming up. The 2 boys have played less than me. Probably about a year and a half now. My partner has played for about 2 and a half years. She's actually pretty good in singles, but she struggled in some of the sets on receive. She missed 4-5 times completely on receive in one of the sets. I also think she was a little shy playing with me. I've played the boys 2 or 3 times in the past, but I've never played with or against this girl. We all had inverted rubbers except the pen holder boy, who has long pips on the reverse side. If you have any advice, or anything, feel free!
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pipigrande
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Joined: 04/18/2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 270 |
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Posted: 03/16/2016 at 1:32pm |
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My friend, you remind me so much of my younger self!!! I'm not even that old (only 28). We have very similar styles and you will develop into a very good player if you keep playing.
I have stopped playing table tennis since 3-4 years ago, so I can't give you too many technical advices, but one thing that helped me improve greatly is this: be smarter in your game-play and always plan the next ball/attack. Like I said before, I see myself in your play, and when my coach told me that, I went a couple of levels up.  |
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Acoustic
BH: T64 FH: BW2 |
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balldance
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Posted: 03/16/2016 at 2:43pm |
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hey there,
it's always nice to see someone pretty new to table tennis and really serious about getting better. You remind me of my younger self, too. I was active on many table tennis forums asking various questions. I also like that bow before a match, really nice. I think you are about 1400-1600 usatt. I think you are pretty good for a guy that only play for 2 years, your rally skills (FH topsin, BH topspin/drive) are pretty good, you are pretty quick as well. You need to work on your footwork, FH/BH push against backspin/no spin, a FH flick/swipe against no spin, the transition from FH to BH and vice versa in rallies. Try to use your legs and the weight transfer for your FH topspin, because even though your FH topspin is pretty good now, you miss a lot of low (dropping) balls because you don't lower your body and transfer the weight to your left leg before starting the swing, see how Ma Long does it on this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiARkUO6aEE It would take time, though, not easy to make it smooth because it's a whole body movement, not just your hand. Returning serve is not easy, you'll get better when you have more experience. |
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Chopper88
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Posted: 03/16/2016 at 3:50pm |
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Where are all these clubs located , sorry iPhone issues
Edited by Chopper88 - 03/16/2016 at 7:26pm |
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mickd
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Posted: 03/16/2016 at 8:09pm |
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Hey, thanks so much pipigrande and balldance for the kind words. It really means a lot. I think this style of play is really fun, and a decent workout, too. I'm planning to get as much game time and improve as much as I can while I'm living here in Japan. The game gets more and more interesting the more I understand. I have some videos of myself from a year ago. Maybe I'll post it later when I have time. It's actually surprising to see how bad I was a year ago, but that only makes me more excited to see how much better I'll become a year from now.
I've actually seen a lot of Ma Long videos. I really like his style and form, and a lot of what I do revolves around trying to copy him. Though I haven't actually seen that particular video, which is really, really helpful, so thank you for posting it. I've downloaded it onto my surface, and I'll probably watch it a dozen times at least. He really makes everything look easy, doesn't he? @Chopper88, I saw your post before leaving for work, and it really confused me, haha. No worries. These are just my local clubs. In Japan, there are clubs everywhere. I live in what they consider a rural area, but there are still 3 clubs within 15 minutes drive. I know there are at least another 3 or so that I've never been to about 20-25 minutes away in the next city over. I also go to other clubs much further away (about 40 minutes drive) because I like the people there. They're also really cheap. All but one of the places I go to are less than $1USD to play (for 2-2.5 hours). It's basically just to pay for renting the area, and balls (3 star plastic balls of various brands, which they provide) If you're after more specific details, send me a PM!
Edited by mickd - 03/16/2016 at 8:18pm |
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skip3119
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Posted: 03/17/2016 at 11:58am |
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My estimate is that you probably worth 1650 USATT.
It looks that you have lots more room for improvement. |
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skip3119
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Egghead
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Posted: 03/17/2016 at 1:03pm |
Me too, .I find that most of Japanese players do that at their games, way better than that stupid guessing game. Also, it is nice to see the pips player showed the pips to him.
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Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
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mickd
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Posted: 03/17/2016 at 8:36pm |
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Thanks guys.
Yeah, I much prefer doing scissors paper rock, too. I played once when I went to America to visit my sister, and they did this thing where they put the ball in one hand under the table, and you guess left or right. Pips players nearly always tell you before the match what rubber they're using. For tournament matches, people generally do scissors paper rock, and then swap rackets so you can examine it before the match starts.
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BRS
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Posted: 03/18/2016 at 2:32pm |
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This is a small sample, but it looks like you always hit up the middle. In general it's great to aim at the playing elbow, but some variety keeps things interesting.
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mickd
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Posted: 03/19/2016 at 4:20am |
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Well noticed, BRS. I always hit the ball straight unless it's super wide. I need to work on variation.
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mickd
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Posted: 04/10/2016 at 10:58am |
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I think my imaginary rating just dropped a few hundred points after this match!
The other day I played a match against one of the strongest members at the club. I think the games were like 11-2, 11-3, 11-2. This is the last set. I was lucky to get a point at the very start, and I had to work very hard to get the second point at 1-9 (1:32). He nearly got it as well. I think he's easily a 2k+ player. Enjoy me getting my butt kicked! |
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balldance
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Posted: 04/10/2016 at 1:21pm |
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yes, he looks at least 2100 to me, very likely higher, so it's no surprise you were struggling. Honestly I think you did not bad at all. Playing with these players can show the real quality of your technique, you know, under pressure against a much better player, there is a good chance that you'll under-perform, but you were able to play at your usual level, which is really good.
That rally at 1:32 is very nice, it shows your skills and potential. I wonder why you stopped using your side-topspin reverse pendulum serve after that first point. Normally after you win point directly with a serve, you should try it again some time in the set, especially when your other serves don't give him any problem. I think you are making progress, keep it up :) Edited by balldance - 04/10/2016 at 1:22pm |
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mickd
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Posted: 04/10/2016 at 8:20pm |
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Yeah, he's a super chill guy and depending on the day I can usually get a few more points. Last time (probably about 2 months ago), I managed to attack his serves more successfully. Against me, he usually does a lot of side-top spin serves. Against much stronger players, he mixes it up a lot more.
That serve is one of my staples, and a lot of people know I like to use it. I think if it was a closer match, I would have definitely used it again. At most it may have worked once more, though after that he'll just attack the ball off serve. There's this girl that I used to play against quite frequently, and that serve never works on her anymore, haha. She attacks it and ends the point every time. I think that has also scarred me mentally from using it multiple times in a set :) Thanks for the kind words, balldance.
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rocketman222 wrote: