Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - tenergy 05 vs MX-P
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

tenergy 05 vs MX-P

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
Author
rocketman222 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 01/06/2007
Location: Walnut Creek,CA
Status: Offline
Points: 1152
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/07/2016 at 7:04pm
MX-P lasted me 2.5 months roughly before the spin starts to dry off, i'll be happy if t05 can beat that
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
ahsq View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 04/07/2015
Location: The flushing Y
Status: Offline
Points: 527
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ahsq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/07/2016 at 7:24pm
Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

MX-P lasted me 2.5 months roughly before the spin starts to dry off, i'll be happy if t05 can beat that

how many days a week and how long a day did you play to last 2.5 months?
FS:
Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped
Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped

Back to Top
rocketman222 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 01/06/2007
Location: Walnut Creek,CA
Status: Offline
Points: 1152
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/07/2016 at 8:26pm
3 times a week and 2 hours each time
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14822
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/07/2016 at 10:45pm
You just like New rubber I guess. Or have a really strong forehand.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
rocketman222 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 01/06/2007
Location: Walnut Creek,CA
Status: Offline
Points: 1152
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/08/2016 at 12:09am
My game is forehand oriented, always trying to loop everything on that side + doing a lot of spinny pendulum serves using the forehand rubber. Explains why that an identical rubber on my backhand usually lasts 2x time than the forehand
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14822
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/08/2016 at 12:33am
Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

My game is forehand oriented, always trying to loop everything on that side + doing a lot of spinny pendulum serves using the forehand rubber. Explains why that an identical rubber on my backhand usually lasts 2x time than the forehand

Only twice the forehand means you like new rubber.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
rocketman222 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 01/06/2007
Location: Walnut Creek,CA
Status: Offline
Points: 1152
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/08/2016 at 1:42am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

My game is forehand oriented, always trying to loop everything on that side + doing a lot of spinny pendulum serves using the forehand rubber. Explains why that an identical rubber on my backhand usually lasts 2x time than the forehand

Only twice the forehand means you like new rubber.

sorry, but i did not get your logic


Edited by rocketman222 - 04/08/2016 at 1:51am
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14822
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/08/2016 at 11:57pm
BH rubber almost never needs changing unless you spin hard. It's more of a vanity thing with most people.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
rocketman222 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 01/06/2007
Location: Walnut Creek,CA
Status: Offline
Points: 1152
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2016 at 2:58am
Did not know, i change rubber when it starts losing grip, and it starts to feel like you can no longer grab the ball while opening backspin
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14822
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2016 at 4:54am
Do you use a rubber revitalizer/cleaner once a month? It might save you some money.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
SmackDAT View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/01/2012
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 2231
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2016 at 8:07am
Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

My game is forehand oriented, always trying to loop everything on that side + doing a lot of spinny pendulum serves using the forehand rubber. Explains why that an identical rubber on my backhand usually lasts 2x time than the forehand

How do you deal with this? Do you replace forehand rubbers twice as often, or even twiddle?
Zhang Jike ALC AN (88g)
Tenergy 05 Hard (2.1, B)
Tenergy 19 (2.1, R)
https://goo.gl/bFWoxW
Back to Top
rickywinataa View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/17/2012
Location: VIC,AU
Status: Offline
Points: 217
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rickywinataa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2016 at 8:17am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Do you use a rubber revitalizer/cleaner once a month? It might save you some money.


I thought rubber cleaners are meant to be used almost every time after you're playing?
Back to Top
PointEngineer View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 03/16/2016
Location: uk
Status: Offline
Points: 74
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PointEngineer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2016 at 8:33am
Originally posted by ahsq ahsq wrote:

Seguso is right on the hardness on them. even though T05 has a smaller pore sponge.
Better Japanese technology.

T05 has better glue between the topsheet/sponge. 
MXP doesnt have the same top quality.

Judging 1 top on another, the pip structures show T05 has more sparse pips than MXP.

It still does not seem to me the sponge is softer with T05 eg after separating from topsheet (but there is not a huge difference and I don't have any kind of force gauge nor any other rigorous measurement to back that up).  Sponge is very slightly thicker on the T05 despite being supposedly if anything thinner than the MX-P's possible 2.2.

The pips are slightly larger with T05 and the space between smaller, and certainly overall more dense pips surface area.

T05 is much more difficult to separate the sponge from suggesting the glue is indeed stronger but it it could be due to the slightly larger pips giving a stronger bond too. 



Back to Top
rocketman222 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 01/06/2007
Location: Walnut Creek,CA
Status: Offline
Points: 1152
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2016 at 10:14am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Do you use a rubber revitalizer/cleaner once a month? It might save you some money.

I wipe with a sponge using water before each time i go out to play
Back to Top
rocketman222 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 01/06/2007
Location: Walnut Creek,CA
Status: Offline
Points: 1152
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2016 at 10:17am
Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

My game is forehand oriented, always trying to loop everything on that side + doing a lot of spinny pendulum serves using the forehand rubber. Explains why that an identical rubber on my backhand usually lasts 2x time than the forehand

How do you deal with this? Do you replace forehand rubbers twice as often, or even twiddle?

Yeah i don't exactly time them to be replaced twice, but this has been my observation, my backhand rubber always lasts longer and i can't twiddle cause i don't use the same rubber, atleast back in the day i had 2 mark Vs(like everyone else lol) and i would turn the bat around after the forehand rubber started declining.
Back to Top
SmackDAT View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/01/2012
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 2231
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2016 at 10:53am
Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

My game is forehand oriented, always trying to loop everything on that side + doing a lot of spinny pendulum serves using the forehand rubber. Explains why that an identical rubber on my backhand usually lasts 2x time than the forehand

How do you deal with this? Do you replace forehand rubbers twice as often, or even twiddle?

Yeah i don't exactly time them to be replaced twice, but this has been my observation, my backhand rubber always lasts longer and i can't twiddle cause i don't use the same rubber, atleast back in the day i had 2 mark Vs(like everyone else lol) and i would turn the bat around after the forehand rubber started declining.
Ahh I see, I guess twiddling would be a good idea, might be a bit OCD though Big smile

Unfortunate that you are using different rubbers on both sides so you can't twiddle...
Zhang Jike ALC AN (88g)
Tenergy 05 Hard (2.1, B)
Tenergy 19 (2.1, R)
https://goo.gl/bFWoxW
Back to Top
PointEngineer View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 03/16/2016
Location: uk
Status: Offline
Points: 74
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PointEngineer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2016 at 12:02pm
MX-P max is approx 2g heavier than T05 max for the cut sheets I have (cut for standard size blade, eg Boll ALC).
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14822
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2016 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by rickywinataa rickywinataa wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Do you use a rubber revitalizer/cleaner once a month? It might save you some money.


I thought rubber cleaners are meant to be used almost every time after you're playing?

Water is good enough for that.  Rubber cleaners are for deep dirt situations.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
seguso View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/24/2010
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 1619
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seguso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2016 at 5:01am
I am using T05 now and I think I get why this rubber is so good. The sponge is not porous like mx-p or m1. So it does not bottom out, even if it is softer than mx-p and m1. This explains why it seems softer to some people and harder to others. If you focus on the fact that the ball sinks in the sponge even at low power, you feel it soft. If you focus on the fact that it does not bottom out, you feel it hard.

Unfortunately, tibhar and donic chose to make big-pored sponges, with the MX-P series and the bluefire M series. But the problem with porous sponges is that, if they are soft (45, 42.5) they bottom out, and if they are hard, they don't bottom out but you must always hit hard, otherwise you get no spin.

It is true that tibhar and donic more recently made some small-pored sponges like T05: they are the JP series and the MX-S series. But MX-s has no 45 deg version yet, and the 45 deg version of JP (i.e. JP02) is much slower than T05, if I recall correctly. Why is that, I wonder?
pg5x - mxd fh & bh - 2015 video
Back to Top
PointEngineer View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 03/16/2016
Location: uk
Status: Offline
Points: 74
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PointEngineer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2016 at 7:05am
Originally posted by seguso seguso wrote:

I am using T05 now and I think I get why this rubber is so good. The sponge is not porous like mx-p or m1. So it does not bottom out, even if it is softer than mx-p and m1. This explains why it seems softer to some people and harder to others. If you focus on the fact that the ball sinks in the sponge even at low power, you feel it soft. If you focus on the fact that it does not bottom out, you feel it hard.

I certainly find for most of my shots (which rarely bottom out due to me playing a more slower spin oriented style) that T05 'feels' harder whatever that means. 

What we could do with which might not be too difficult to test is probably around 4 static hardness measures for the rubber as a whole (topsheet+sponge)  If I was to estimate I would say something like 1kg, 5kg, 10kg, 20kg (on top of a single ball) equivalents would give a real picture of hardness including the bottoming out scenario.  These numbers are based on acceleration estimates with a contact (dwell) time range estimate of 0.5-1.5ms. Using a hardball (eg 40mm steel ballbearing) you could measure the diameter of contact with some powder on the ball leaving some on the rubber, and/or measure the deflection.  This would give an idea of feel for non-spin oriented shots at 4 different speeds, but NOT any spin oriented shots.
Back to Top
slevin View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/15/2012
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 3602
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2016 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by seguso seguso wrote:

I am using T05 now and I think I get why this rubber is so good. The sponge is not porous like mx-p or m1. So it does not bottom out, even if it is softer than mx-p and m1. This explains why it seems softer to some people and harder to others. If you focus on the fact that the ball sinks in the sponge even at low power, you feel it soft. If you focus on the fact that it does not bottom out, you feel it hard.

Unfortunately, tibhar and donic chose to make big-pored sponges, with the MX-P series and the bluefire M series. But the problem with porous sponges is that, if they are soft (45, 42.5) they bottom out, and if they are hard, they don't bottom out but you must always hit hard, otherwise you get no spin.

It is true that tibhar and donic more recently made some small-pored sponges like T05: they are the JP series and the MX-S series. But MX-s has no 45 deg version yet, and the 45 deg version of JP (i.e. JP02) is much slower than T05, if I recall correctly. Why is that, I wonder?

+1. The JP02 is also quite low throw (because of its softer topsheet).

A shout-out to the Donic Acuda Blue P2. Small-pored 45 deg rubber. Due to it's soft topsheet, it feels super soft when you hold the sheet in your hand. But, unlike Rasant Grip and the EL-P, it won't bottom out as quickly on the harder strokes.

Donic is very close - just match that sponge with a slightly harder topsheet (perhaps one like the Xiom Omega V Europe) and you're there.
Back to Top
Bran View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 06/18/2013
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 367
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2016 at 1:34pm
The P2 is even lower throw, with its ultra soft topsheet. It makes flat hits, blocking and loop driving very easy, but it's really not meant for pure loopers and people who like spinning up. It's a peculiar rubber.

I suspect the T05 topsheet explains why it's hard to bottom out compared to other rubbers with same sponge hardness: its structure (hardness and pimple density, dimensions) makes it so that it spreads the ball pressure on a larger surface, hence it's much harder to compress the sponge (picture pressing on a sponge with a finger vs with the palm, much harder to compress in the second case).

On the other hand, if you have a softer topsheet that dips very locally, the ball pressure is much more localised, hence it's easier to compress the sponge for the same incoming ball properties.
Back to Top
seguso View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/24/2010
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 1619
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seguso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2016 at 2:21pm
Slevin, I bought the p2 for that reason, but sold it immediately because it was incredibly slow and very low throw. With Clipper CR, a fast blade, I could not finish the point. And I had to change my stroke completely. I suppose I could get used to the new stroke, but I don't know about the lack of power. I also seem to recall it felt like it was bottoming out, unlike t05, but I am not sure.


Edited by seguso - 04/21/2016 at 2:22pm
pg5x - mxd fh & bh - 2015 video
Back to Top
slevin View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/15/2012
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 3602
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2016 at 3:56pm
Seguso: A problem with composite blades is that soft-sponged rubbers bottom out quicker. So, EL-P on Virtuoso would not bottom out as quickly but the EL-P on MJ-SZLC does.

I tried the Acuda Blue P2 on the MJ-SZLC (a OFF+ composite and it was great). Even Rakza 9 (which Yasaka incorrectly claims is harder than Rakza 7) bottomed out on that blade but this rubber did not. And perhaps, the composite & high throw nature of the blade is a perfect match for its topsheet softness.

BTW: I would use it as a BH rubber only.
Back to Top
Bran View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 06/18/2013
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 367
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2016 at 4:38pm
I also think the Acuda P series is best on composite blades.
Back to Top
Magic_M View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/31/2012
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2217
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2016 at 5:34pm
Yes, P1 on Zhang Jike ALC fits really good
Back to Top
DreiZ View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/01/2009
Location: New York, US
Status: Offline
Points: 2574
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/29/2016 at 8:03pm
In other non related news,
FTL boosted mxp loops like butter.
Switching back to 2.0 MXP both sides :)

Edited by DreiZ - 04/29/2016 at 8:03pm
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g
FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm
USATT: 1725
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.719 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2024 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.