Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Service Strategy vs Banana Flip
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login
tabletennis11.com

Service Strategy vs Banana Flip

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
mjamja View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 05/30/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2892
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Service Strategy vs Banana Flip
    Posted: 05/20/2016 at 2:23pm
The banana flip service return is being used a lot more recently, especially by junior players.  I was wondering if there were any service strategies (type of spin, location, types of 3rd ball, etc) that tend to be more effective against these banana flip returns.

No one at my club uses the banana flip.  But when I go to tournaments I just get destroyed when I face someone who uses it.  I get really strong attacking flips back even on what I think are very good serves.  I do not read where the flip is going well and I always seem late getting my racket into position even when the ball is hit close to me.

Thanks for any insights you could give me.

Mark
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14335
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2016 at 2:44pm
There are lots of ways to deal with this and probably all are important, but if you try to work on all of them at the same time you will not make progress.  That is kind of a zen idea.  You will become a mess.  You have to be systematic.

So I will suggest only two.  Other people will suggest other things too, probably good ideas, but again, you can't work on them all at once.  So pick a couple out of the suggestions you get.  My two are:

1.  The opponent has to respect the possibility they will get a very deep serve.  This one is easiest to learn.  It is easiest to learn to execute this from one or the other variations of the "hook" or "tomahawk" motion that you often see done by people like Liu Shiwen or Stefan Fegerl or Par Gerell, or sometimes Ovtcharov.  Deep to the BH corner or deep to the body.

2.  This one is harder past a certain age because of athleticism required but you really need to get into the unconscious habit of getting back to ready position after your serve.  One thing that makes it a little easier is to keep in mind that very few right handed people at a level near to you will hit banana flicks to your deep forehand so you don't have to cover the whole table.  (If they can do that reliably, without giving you lots of points in unforced errors, they are probably good enough that you are not going to win anyway).  If you drop your hands after the serve you are hosed.  At first it will require conscious attention but it needs to become unconscious.  I mention this as a way to cope with the return until you develop some serves that can reduce it.
Back to Top
Nasche View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 04/15/2016
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 155
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nasche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2016 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:


2.  This one is harder past a certain age because of athleticism required but you really need to get into the unconscious habit of getting back to ready position after your serve.  One thing that makes it a little easier is to keep in mind that very few right handed people at a level near to you will hit banana flicks to your deep forehand so you don't have to cover the whole table.  (If they can do that reliably, without giving you lots of points in unforced errors, they are probably good enough that you are not going to win anyway).  If you drop your hands after the serve you are hosed.  At first it will require conscious attention but it needs to become unconscious.  I mention this as a way to cope with the return until you develop some serves that can reduce it.

Great advice, sometimes we lose points just because we forget to get back into ready position at the proper distance from the table, not just against banana flip, but sometimes after your own banana flip you just forget to take a step back in time.


Edited by Nasche - 05/20/2016 at 2:57pm
Back to Top
42andbackpains View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/05/2014
Location: NYC
Status: Offline
Points: 623
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42andbackpains Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2016 at 2:54pm
I have noticed 2000 rated plus players serve short and semi fast underspin serves. This prevents alot of banana flip returns. And the speed of your serve determines how far they will push to so that you can do a opening attack. Slow underspin serves gives the opponent time to return short or a potential banana flips. Throw in a long fast serve once in a while to keep the opponent on there toes. 2 cents added Smile 

Edited by 42andbackpains - 05/20/2016 at 2:57pm
Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Ultimate II 88 grams
FH Dianchi D w/ Secret Sauce
BH Butterfly T05 Red
USATT rating keeps going down
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14822
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2016 at 3:20pm
Sidespin away from the returner's backhand - tomahawk, backhand or reverse serves to the short forehand from the forehand side or middle of the table.  It improves your ability to cover wide flicks to the forehand as well.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
vanjr View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 08/19/2004
Location: Corpus Christi
Status: Offline
Points: 1364
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2016 at 3:27pm
I have a hard time believing no one at your club does this return. Maybe you can say no one does it effectively....or maybe no one does it with tenergy. I could have sworn I did a drill with you this very week ...or was it this weak?
Back to Top
mts388 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 03/21/2014
Location: Sonora CA
Status: Offline
Points: 2376
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2016 at 3:42pm
Like you, I'm starting to see more banana flips.  For me the most important thing is to quickly get into the ready position.  As soon as I serve short to a banana flipper I look at their paddle to determine where it is going and using almost no backswing and counter loop it.  If I execute that shot they have a very difficult time getting back in position to return it. 

It's too bad you don't have any capable players in your club willing to drill with you.  Maybe you can teach one of your weaker players how to banana flip and work with him.Smile


Edited by mts388 - 05/20/2016 at 4:01pm
Back to Top
geardaddy View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 11/14/2013
Location: Minnesota
Status: Offline
Points: 402
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote geardaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2016 at 3:48pm
Plan A: Either improve the serve that they are banana-flipping or do different serves.

Why is it that you think these are very good serves where you are getting the difficult banana-flip return?  Obviously it seems that these players are not fooled in the least by the serve you're giving them.  You need to change your serve to be more deceptive, i.e. keep them guessing as to what type of spin is on the ball, and thus they give a more passive response.  Otherwise, stop using the serve and do other types of serves.  Mixing up your serves to be short/long or to different placements on the table is a good thing, but it doesn't solve the fundamental problem that your opponent is having no trouble seeing the spin on some of your serves and is aggressively attacking them as a result.

I would suggest experimenting with some new service motions where you can more effectively disguise underspin vs no-spin, or even better you can completely fool them with a topspin serve that looks like underspin.  This should result in the opponent making mistakes with their banana-flips by hitting them long off the table, and when you do give them the underspin variation they will hesitate and either return with a weaker banana-flip return that pops up and can be attacked, or they resort to giving a push return.

Also, the problem might be that your serve placement is too predictable, which makes it easier for them to know where they need to move to execute the banana-flip.  This is where have better disguise on your serve to go backhand vs middle vs forehand might help to diffuse getting the banana-flip return.

Plan B: Improve your response to banana-flip returns.

This may be more difficult to accomplish if you don't have a practice partner to work with that can execute a banana-flip return.  The fact is that a banana-flip return that is not well placed or has "weaker" spin is very easily counter-attacked.  It's a bit like receiving a heavy topspin serve, which can be attacked aggressively with a counter-drive or loop if you can see the spin properly.  But it seems your biggest problem here is that you are just not used to such a short, heavy topspin ball coming at you.  You need to see it and encounter it in practice to get used to it.  


Edited by geardaddy - 05/20/2016 at 4:04pm
Back to Top
notfound123 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/18/2008
Location: MD, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1022
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notfound123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2016 at 4:43pm
In short:
If someone banana flips you - banana flip them back. Continue banana flipping until they lose the point. Repeat.

On a more serious note, develop stronger serves and always vary your spin. If someone gets used to your say heavy underspin serves, stop serving it and immediately mix things up.
Back to Top
mjamja View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 05/30/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2892
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2016 at 5:29pm
VanJr,

I thought  what you were doing was a more convention flip, although certainly more brushed and spiny than normal.  It did not seem to have the paddle tip down vertical (or even past vertical) nor the side of the ball contact that I associate with a banana flick.  Maybe I just was not paying close enough attention to what you were doing. 

Mark






Back to Top
obesechopper View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 04/20/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 839
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obesechopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2016 at 6:33pm
I use the banana flip on the backhand for probably 98% of all my current serve receives, the reason being that I am obsessed with it! And learning all the nuances and abilities that come with the shot.

That being the case, everyone I play KNOWS that regardless of the serve, I will be doing a backhand flip. So they try everything they can to limit my chances, so far nothing has worked!

What they end up trying to do, which does increase the difficulty, is serving very short to the forehand side and at a heavy angle. Usually serving from their right side of the table to the extreme left (my right side). But in doing so, that opens up a big angle for me to use -- especially if I were to use the forehand flick. Another tactic they try is to do a very fast serve way out to my forehand side. 

Another serve they try is to do as heavy a backspin serve as they can muster, trying to keep it short on the table. I've been drilling with a machine for quite some time, so even these are fairly easy to flip back unless you've got very tiny arms LOL

None of them really seem to prevent the flip, though they do make it harder to perform. Since taking on this strategy, I'd say the majority of my rallies are 2 or 3 points long at most... my flip is often a kill at that. 


Edited by obesechopper - 05/20/2016 at 6:40pm
Back to Top
jt99sf View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 04/29/2005
Location: San Francisco
Status: Offline
Points: 4946
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2016 at 6:40pm
Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

I use the banana flip on the backhand for probably 98% of all my current serve receives, the reason being that I am obsessed with it! And learning all the nuances and abilities that come with the shot.

That being the case, everyone I play KNOWS that regardless of the serve, I will be doing a backhand flip. So they try everything they can to limit my chances, so far nothing has worked!

What they end up trying to do, which does increase the difficulty, is serving very short to the forehand side and at a heavy angle. Usually serving from their right side of the table to the extreme left (my right side). But in doing so, that opens up a big angle for me to use -- especially if I were to use the forehand flick. Another tactic they try is to do a very fast serve way out to my forehand side. 

None of them really seem to prevent the flip, though they do make it harder to perform. Since taking on this strategy, I'd say the majority of my rallies are 2 or 3 points long at most... my flip is often a kill at that. 

Serve with pips. LOL
Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)

林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil
Back to Top
jfolsen View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 03/15/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1294
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2016 at 6:47pm
If you really serve short, low and not to the middle of their backhand, they may hit it, but it won't be that hard. (world class players excluded)

Once you get over the surprise of the banana flip, lots of players around here just jam it back fast. In order to do the banana you have to do a fair bit of wrist contortion and are usually leaning in over the table. Any sort of quick return punishes the flipper.

jfolsen
Back to Top
obesechopper View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 04/20/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 839
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obesechopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2016 at 7:10pm
Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

If you really serve short, low and not to the middle of their backhand, they may hit it, but it won't be that hard. (world class players excluded)

Once you get over the surprise of the banana flip, lots of players around here just jam it back fast. In order to do the banana you have to do a fair bit of wrist contortion and are usually leaning in over the table. Any sort of quick return punishes the flipper.

jfolsen

The BF can be done pretty hard from anywhere on the table, if you're not standing in a bucket of cement! 

Watch how Fan handles this one wide to his forehand


This sequence here is generally the most common I receive (serve -- flick -- opponent hits backhand shot to my bh corner).


I think the real danger/downside of the flick is not in orchestrating its prevention... but in handling what comes after. Are you a fast, offensive player? If the other player is pretty decent, then they can get right into the rally with either a short drive/top spin or an angled block off to one side. So the flipper has to be ready to attack again after initiating the offense. 

If your blocking/offense isn't as good as the other person's... then the flick may not be the proper shot to play most of the time. Unless you can figure out ways to combat their offensive sides. 

For me, to counter that, what I do is see which side my opponent is weakest on and then focus my shots to that spot overall. 
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14335
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2016 at 9:08pm
Fortunately very few of us are trying to beat FZD.
Back to Top
berndt_mann View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/02/2015
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 1719
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2016 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Fortunately very few of us are trying to beat FZD.


In order to try to beat FZD
You gotta be a player on the CNT.

(Too sweet to resist)


Edited by berndt_mann - 05/20/2016 at 9:49pm
bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14822
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2016 at 9:54pm
There are three strategies I use together:

1.  Serve reverse sidespin to the short forehand from the forehand side.    The starting position is critical as the easiest return is to come back to your forehand and you can then play a loop.  You can serve it from the backhand side as well if you have advanced recovery and footwork technique but I don't.

2.  Serve heavy backspin with no-spin variations.  The heavy backspin will make sure that whatever they do to flick the ball will give you sufficient topspin to attack the shot and even kill it.

3.  Serve fast and deep to keep them honest.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14335
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2016 at 10:42pm
Originally posted by berndt_mann berndt_mann wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Fortunately very few of us are trying to beat FZD.


In order to try to beat FZD
You gotta be a player on the CNT.

(Too sweet to resist)


Gee Berndt, your keen razor-sharp insight really got me there. 
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 5443
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/21/2016 at 12:01am
Just do a simple counter against these flips, and the game will proceed to the topspin rally phase. Then it is just a battle of fundamentals.

Counterlooping is really a low percentage shot but feel free to try it.

Extremely heavy underspin serves to the short FH, coupled by deep serves to the BH corner (could be sidespin of both types mixed with topspin or even underspin) tends to jam them up pretty nicely.
I once driven a banana flipper crazy using these serves, that he started to resort to pushing the short FH serves which I then mixed in with some no spin balls to get easy 3rd ball kills.

To me, I like the FH receive a lot better, as there's a lot more variation that I can get from a few movements

-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
Back to Top
benfb View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 10/10/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2709
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/21/2016 at 1:01am
My two cents worth:

1) Most bananas are helped by side spin in a particular direction.  I usually find that if someone seems to find the BF too easy for one type of serve, I reverse the direction of side spin.

2) For all flips, banana or otherwise, the power of the flip really depends upon a precise reading of the top/bottom spin.  So when I see someone flipping underspin serves too easily, I change to no spin (side spin) serves, or vice versa.

3) Generally speaking, it's harder to make aggressive (fast) flips (banana or otherwise) against no spin serves than under/top spin serves, That's because players can use the under or top spin to help the power of their attack. Of course, this assumes your serves are low to the net.

4) If the banana isn't too aggressive/fast, then you just need to be alert and not panic. It's quite returnable.
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14822
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2016 at 1:11pm
http://tabletenniscoaching.com/node/2205
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14335
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2016 at 2:50pm
Look at the 1-3 minute mark how Ma Long gets back so quickly to prepare for the banana flick after he serves.  He trains that move really hard.  Even though none of us are professional players, we probably need to train that movement also.



Edit.  He steps back even more (and faster) after he hits the banana flick himself because he knows he is not going to get a short short after that.
Back to Top
berndt_mann View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/02/2015
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 1719
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2016 at 6:17pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by berndt_mann berndt_mann wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Fortunately very few of us are trying to beat FZD.


In order to try to beat FZD
You gotta be a player on the CNT.

(Too sweet to resist)


Gee Berndt, your keen razor-sharp insight really got me there. 


Keen razor-sharp insight will tend to do that to a guy.  Every time I read one of Tassie52's posts, or yours for that matter, the hairs on my forearms stand straight up.  The same thing happens when I read one of my posts.


Edited by berndt_mann - 05/23/2016 at 6:19pm
bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14335
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2016 at 6:46pm
I just now noticed that you were attempting to write a little rhyme.  I am not sure how one would classify the rhythm, but iambic pentameter it ain't.
Back to Top
berndt_mann View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/02/2015
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 1719
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2016 at 7:29pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I just now noticed that you were attempting to write a little rhyme.  I am not sure how one would classify the rhythm, but iambic pentameter it ain't.

Oh hell no Baal.  You gotta remember I'm a conservatory trained musician and tend to think more in terms of musical rhythms rather than poetic meters even when writing the doggerel I do so well.

Iambic pentameter, as we all know, goes da-DUM da-DUM da-DUM da-DUM.

In order to try to beat FZD
You gotta be a player on the CNT.

goes

da Dada da da da da DA DA DA
da Dada da da dada da da DA DA DA.


 

bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber
Back to Top
berndt_mann View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/02/2015
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 1719
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2016 at 9:19pm
And now, back to banana flipping.  On the old USATT website, there was a picture of yours truly, taken I don't know where or when, stroking a rpb backhand with a HB, racket head pointed straight down, which may have been one of the world's first banana flips, certainly the first ever executed with a hardbat.  I cannot recall whether it was made against a serve, or whether or not it was a good return.  Definitely a banana flip though.

Back then, when this picture was taken, there was no name for a banana flip.  But somebody must have gotten the word around to international level players somehow, as now the banana flip is an indispensible part of just about every world class player's repertoire.

To paraphrase Cole Ely, I am glad to have been of assistance, as the banana flip has now become almost as ubiquitous for shakehanders and penholders at the international level as the rpb has become for penholders.

Since abbreviations are quite common here, couldn't we just call the banana fliip the bf?


Edited by berndt_mann - 05/23/2016 at 9:26pm
bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.297 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2024 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.