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Forehand Topspin |
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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Posted: 06/23/2016 at 1:11am |
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I was really impressed with all the helpful advice I got from the "Backhand Drive" thread. There was also a lot of great information for others, too. So I decided to make one on the forehand topspin.
I'm a lot more comfortable with my forehand than my backhand, but there are still a lot areas that can be improved. I recorded it from 3 different angles. Unfortunately with the third one, my camera stopped recording after a minute, so I didn't really get much video to work with. Here they are: As always, if you have any advice, it'll be greatly appreciated!
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Ball coming in too fast and deep. You're getting jammed. For those you need to take two steps back(roughly where the yellow line is), which is only good after you have the stroke down. |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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Victor_the_cleaner
Gold Member Joined: 12/26/2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1428 |
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what zeio said. Mizutani is about the only asian who does the european chickenwing. Get rid of it early. Frankly, to me your FH is worse than your BH in form, though it appears more consistent.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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Your loop looks good for the speed of the feed and you absolutely need the stroke you are using now to handle rallies at that speed. You may want to consider stepping back and using a larger stroke with a slightly straighter backswing on some balls as well as being able to use a straighter backswing to attack weak balls. You could also benefit from pushing the shoulder through the contact point more forward to get more power as you sometimes don't get much body weight or core rotation behind the ball.
All that said, if you learn to vary the thickness of the contact and control the ball trajectory with this stroke, I would not overly complain if this was your base technique. We are hobby players and your stroke checks the boxes, so to speak.
Edited by NextLevel - 06/23/2016 at 6:40pm |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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Thanks for the replies, guys.
@zeio When you say my elbow is fixed, do you mean I need more forearm snap? Would having a straighter arm during the backswing help with this? Or would that just be a bandaid on the problem? @Victor It's okay to be frank, since I'm here to learn :) What do you mean by the European chicken dance? Do you mean having a fixed angle at the elbow before, during, and after the stroke? I'm actually trying to snap my arm when doing my forehand stroke, but in the videos it looks a lot less than it felt like. So that's something I need to work on. @NextLevel When you say push the shoulder through the contact point, are you referring to more forward weight transfer? I think my stance is making it hard to get good forward weight transfer in. Do you think I should be a little more side on to the table? Generally I get more side on the further back I move. What do you think about the current distance I am from the table? Should I get more side on from there as well? Or is it something more fundamental than that I should be doing to help with that issue without having to get more side on? I really appreciate the input guys. I look forward to your replies, or any other comments :)
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Yes, your forearm has very limited participation in the entire stroke due to your locked elbow. You need to liberate it and let the forearm drop a bit more to create room for acceleration. Currently, that burden is unduly placed on your upper arm. The primary role of the upper arm is to mediate the transfer of momentum between the shoulder and the forearm. Alone by itself, the upper arm cannot generate much momentum of its own. Hence, your trunk and in general the upper body should be working in unison with the upper arm. Your swing speed is severely hindered as it is right now.
Edited by zeio - 06/23/2016 at 10:43pm |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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obesechopper
Silver Member Joined: 04/20/2011 Status: Offline Points: 839 |
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Not to hijack the thread with my own inadequacies, but they're similar to yours... so I'll go ahead and ask!
I've been receiving some coaching as of late, and the main critique is that I'm "using too much arm" and have barely any body rotation. I turn to the side... but then only swing with the arm about 80-90% of the stroke. There isn't much waist snap action going on. Are there any tips to get more body involved in the movement? The actual result is pretty decent for me, despite using all arm. Very spinny brush loops, and no real problem returning chops with it. Though I think it could be improved if I had the proper starting point and engaged the body more. I get nice body torque when smashing with the forehand, but the looping... not so much.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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The key is really to sync up your core rotation with your arm swing so that your body is rotating when you contact the ball and putting weight into your shot. Some people do this by getting side on so that they are hitting the ball besides them. This is old school and doesn't facilitate two winged looping. The modern way is to bend the knees a little a get lower, so that the core can rotate more over your base. Then a larger backswing is possible and you can take the ball more to the side of you so that you are impacting it when your body is rotating. That said, what you are doing is perfectly fine for fast rallying. Even good players playing square to the table hit the ball kind of like you when rushed for time as they borrow the pace of the incoming ball. This video may help you think through some issues. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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rocketman222
Gold Member Joined: 01/06/2007 Location: Walnut Creek,CA Status: Offline Points: 1152 |
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100% agree with Zeio and NextLevel, so the only thing i have to add is to find a practice partner who has a good passive block, so you get time for the larger swing and not rushed.
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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Thank you for the clarifications, zeio and NextLevel. I think I have a much better idea of what I need to change to get a better relationship between body and arm now.
Finding a better practice partner will be difficult. The balls in the videos are actually relatively slow and consistent compared to what I get with a lot of other players. Though now that you guys mention it, a much slower block would definitely be better for me at this stage. The good news is that I did buy the Amicus Pro. But since it's currently out of stock, I probably won't get it for a month or so.
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benfb
Platinum Member Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
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Like the others, I see too much shoulder work due to your chicken wing stroke. However, I also see something else that hasn't been mentioned. I think you're hitting the ball late (too far behind your body). It's hard to be sure just from looking at video, but I think you would do better to make your contact further out in front of your body.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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I think the responsibility lies with you just as much as it does with your blocker. Communicate that you are trying to go slower and try to get the former right and not so much hit the ball with power. I still think your current loop is largely fine so these are all nuances. The upper arm should only move with the core. Don't use it by itself for the most part. Keep the elbow down - adjust it's positioning to the incoming ball early so that you don't raise it parallel to your wrist to strike over the ball. You do this well now so don't overthink kt. Your arm should feel like a whip. Think of how the arms behave when running. When you loop, try to turn your core until your right shoulder is facing your opponent on the backswing. Somewhere around that spot you are looking at is where you should hit the ball on your forward swing. This will ensure that you are hitting the ball while rotating. In terms of consistently looping with easy power, hitting the ball while rotating is the most important thing. The precise point in your swing where you contact the ball is secondary to this. Timing the backswing so that you do not stop abruptly and lose the momentum when you swing forward is helpful as well. It is possible to get a lot of easy power with this motion. And you can do it as slowly or as quickly as you want. If you use your elbow as a lever, this improves the whip of the forearm and wrist and raises your spin tremendously. Again, you don't have to do any of this hard or fast. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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pipigrande
Super Member Joined: 04/18/2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 270 |
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I'd like to say that the advises here are very very nice. Specially the way that it's explained.
Good job guys. I have learned a couple of things myself. Zeio and Nextlevel, are you guys coaches? |
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Acoustic
BH: T64 FH: BW2 |
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rocketman222
Gold Member Joined: 01/06/2007 Location: Walnut Creek,CA Status: Offline Points: 1152 |
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I know Nextlevel is a part time coach
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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The forehand fixing machine, maybe? If you want something less extreme, a rolled-up towel tucked under the armpit will do. The general idea is to keep your upper arm from moving freely so you're forced to turn your upper body. This is usually done when people start out with the forehand drive so that by the time they are ready to learn to loop the issue would not arise. |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Me? No, but I was fortunate to have started early as a kid with a bunch of friends and got the chance to meet a few coaches along the way. The advice is merely some of my own interpretation from having gone thorough bits of the curve.
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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Yes, I coach as an amateur. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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pipigrande
Super Member Joined: 04/18/2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 270 |
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I've never recorded myself before... but I'd like to record myself quite soon to see my many flaws. I might reach out to you guys for great advices, as I need tons of improving; hopefully you guys can help
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Acoustic
BH: T64 FH: BW2 |
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