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Robots...totally useless? |
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baribari
Super Member Joined: 12/06/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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Posted: 09/28/2016 at 12:24am |
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I tried a robot yesterday and it may be a matter of settings, but it was completely unlike hitting a real ball hit by a live player. It was also totally unlike multiball training.
Is this just something you have to deal with? It felt like maybe there was way too much spin for as slow as the balls were. Should I just turn the spin way down? Although it could be useful to test your reflexes and transitions, it seems like multiball with a decent coach is just light-years better. Not to mention you end up with so many balls on the floor that you can't really use footwork out of fear of stepping on balls...
Edited by baribari - 09/28/2016 at 12:25am |
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BMonkey
Gold Member Joined: 11/28/2008 Status: Offline Points: 1015 |
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Not everyone has ready access to a high rated player/coach to practice with. I think a robot is better than nothing if you are unable to find practice regularly. I'm not sure what kind of robot you practiced with that didn't have a catch net, but most of them do.
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WeebleWobble
Super Member Joined: 07/07/2012 Status: Offline Points: 490 |
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I just bought a butterfly amicus pro and its great. Not sure what robot you have but with the amicus the spin and speed can be adjusted independently of each other.
It can create very realistic balls in my opinion and has helped me quickly. My biggest complaint is that all the balls have to come from the center of the table. I guess i could move the robot to the side but then you cant catch the balls with the net properly. But if you dont have easy access to a coach I'd highly recommend it. Edited by WeebleWobble - 09/28/2016 at 8:30am |
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chongqinghotpot
Silver Member Joined: 11/21/2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 538 |
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I found nothing was more helpful than my old newgy robot which helped me reach 2200-2300 level in a few years starting in my late 30s without coaching .
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2574 |
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Thats great improvement. my personal opinion, if you dont want/cant get coaching second best option is a good robot. Ofcourse good coaching can fix old mistakes which robot cant but the amount of ball touches a robot can provide in a relatively short period of time is greatly beneficial to getting better.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Part of the problem is that some of the cheaper robots have a tendency to wear badly and at some point stop giving you balls that are much use for training, which sounds a bit like what is happening to the OP. Also, you can use the robot to do nothing more than reinforce really bad habits (or generate repetitive use injuries). I have seen some people get actually worse from a robot.
On the other hand, you can use it at home alone. You do have to be careful how you use it. I think it is best to use them with video to make sure you are maintaining good form. Chongqing, perhaps you could explain exactly how you used the robot to make the improvement? |
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suds79
Silver Member Joined: 08/20/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 878 |
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I have mixed feelings on robots.
I am borrowing my buddy's Newgy that can oscillate and tray to keep feeding it as long as you put it on the table... A big step up from my Newgy 540. It's good grooving in your strokes. Is it realistic? Probably not but I don't expect it to be. For me it's just tuning in that muscle memory over & over. My club only meets once a week and with a wife & two young kids, I can't afford to play 3 times a week by meeting with buddies. That would take away from family time. But I can stay up late or get up early and hit a few hundred extra balls that I wouldn't have otherwise. So from that standpoint, it's good. Where it's bad is backspin. The speed & spin are directly tied to one another. Nobody hits with that much backspin. I use to think "well hey if if I can loop those backspin balls in, than i can any ball" and looking back now, that's kinda flawed thinking. It's not the amount of backspin that gets me from time to time. It's the not knowing or reading just how much i need to brush up on it. I find I often miss light backspin balls shooting them long largely because I don't practice that much against it. Same for no-spin balls. For this reason I'd probably only ever recommend a robot with at least a 2 wheel motor system.
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WeebleWobble
Super Member Joined: 07/07/2012 Status: Offline Points: 490 |
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That's why I sprung for the amicus. You can set backspin at 1-5. 2 is fairly heavy. 3 is probably chopper heavy. I haven't even tried 4 or 5, I'm sure its ridiculous. |
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obesechopper
Silver Member Joined: 04/20/2011 Status: Offline Points: 839 |
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I practice on #5 back spin, doing short 'serves' over the table and backhand flicking them back. When I go against real players at the local clubs, their serves are a joke to flick back now! I have to wonder if they're all using anti spin! It feels like they've got nothing on it
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LUCKYLOOP
Platinum Member Joined: 03/27/2013 Location: Pongville USA Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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Robot blocking practice is very good, builds reflexes too. |
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chongqinghotpot
Silver Member Joined: 11/21/2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 538 |
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In addition to practicing fundamentals with robot, i often try to change power, spin, placement, timing, etc. on my shots. There are countless things you can do with a robot creatively. I can play with robot for 2 hours without feeling bored.
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baribari
Super Member Joined: 12/06/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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About the best thing you can say about robots is that they're a great workout... and that they're consistent. Arguably even more consistent than a coach feeding you balls.
But you have to get the settings dialed in perfect to simulate a live ball. A lot of machines don't let you adjust speed and spin separately. You're lucky if you even have a machine that can aim at different places. I guess in the end it depends on how good the robot is. OTOH, the machine was using cheap celluloid balls and I've been practicing with nothing but plastic balls for well over a year. I also might have confused the topspin setting for the backspin setting, which might explain why the balls felt so weird.
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obesechopper
Silver Member Joined: 04/20/2011 Status: Offline Points: 839 |
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So... you weren't able to tell if you were hitting backspin or topspin balls? And the machine is the problem... gotcha!
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kenneyy88
Premier Member Joined: 01/06/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4074 |
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Are there robots where u can adjust the position, so its not always shooting balls from the center? or robots that have multiple heads?
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mhnh007
Platinum Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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+1. Use your phone to record ~2 min at the beginning of each session to make sure your from is correct. The rhythm from the robot is constant so it's very easy to develop a bad form. |
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BRS
Gold Member Joined: 05/08/2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1587 |
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Most robots can be moved around, backed off the table, raised or lowered vs table height. But you generally lose any catch net or ball recycling feature when you do that. It's still worth doing. What you can't do is mimic a point where a ball comes from near and then far, or one side and then the other.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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When I looped Amicus LEvel 4 backspin, my 3rd ball game went to the next level.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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CroNone
Member Joined: 09/13/2015 Location: NZ Status: Offline Points: 59 |
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Are there robots where u can adjust the position, so its not always shooting balls from the center? or robots that have multiple heads?
Keep your eyes on this space. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1743882979/trainerbot-smart-ping-pong-robot/description Trainerbot is being developed right now. Multi motor, clamps to the table, programmable via android app. Developed by engineers who have tested the current robot market and want to make a better robot for a reasonable price that has all the functionality of the best ones out there and more. My fingers are crossed for this one. I currently own a Newgy 1050 that does the job but I would really like to mix the spins up from ball to ball.
Edited by CroNone - 09/29/2016 at 5:27pm |
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dmoney
Member Joined: 05/01/2016 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 52 |
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You have given me hope. I'm playing with the best i-pong model right now, going to get the newgy when this one kicks the bucket. It's fairly cheaply made so I think I'll be upgrading in the next 6 months. My robot has helped me greatly get my slam and loop dialed in, but the variation that a real player offers gives me trouble. The club closest to me is an hour away so I can only get there a couple times a month. The robot can only give me a top spin effectively. If I try to get much bottom spin the ball just sails like a paper airplane. Overall, I've been happy with my robot, but I would love to have someone around as serious as I am. But I'm excited to get the Newgy as I think the programs on the machine and the ability for automated ball return will help me up my game again.
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Thanks!
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lgxb
Super Member Joined: 09/10/2016 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 297 |
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Great news to me since I can't afford to go to club more than once a week.
So what model of newgy do you use? Besides robot, did you play with real person a lot to get 2200 level? Thanks!
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FlatHitter
Super Member Joined: 10/14/2014 Location: modesto ca. Status: Offline Points: 173 |
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I spent a lot of time working on the robot, mainly because I didn't have very many players to practice with that could return more than 1 or 2 balls..for the most part, I find it's better than no practice at all. it will help your stamina and your foot work. criss cross drills switching from backhand to forehand and some pushing drills are helpful..but, it is no replacement for playing matches. I am improving at a faster rate since I quit using the robot. It does not compare to real playing, the one thing is the dead balls and floaters that happen during matches the unpredictable..my backhand stroke works great on the robot but cant hit the table when I'm playing a match..learn how to loop backspins on the robot and they will fly off the end of the table during a match..this is with a robopong, which I personally think is a bad robot..I think the butterfly robot would be a lot better to use and would be helpful for improvement, especially with the options for practicing various spin shots and service return drills....
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If your phone is'nt ringing, it's probably me...
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WeebleWobble
Super Member Joined: 07/07/2012 Status: Offline Points: 490 |
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The main thing I've been practicing with the Amicus is looping backspin and I'm getting quite good at it but just unable to incorporate it into my matches so far. I guess that transition takes time, my muscle memory just kicks in during matches... |
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obesechopper
Silver Member Joined: 04/20/2011 Status: Offline Points: 839 |
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I don't think the robot is the problem there. You can set the spin/speed levels, so if you are practicing against unrealistic robot balls... what do you expect will happen in a game?! Set your robots to replicate real match play balls as best you can, then they become quite useful. I used to spend a lot of time practicing against really heavy spin balls (top/back), but quickly discovered basically no one in my area can hit balls like that!
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Ragnolo
Beginner Joined: 10/12/2016 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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I just bought a butterfly amicus professional and a Donic Persson 25 table..
I use my robot to improve my technic with LP OSX and frictionless rubbers.. just 1 h every days.. and now i see the results.. My fault percentage in free failures rallies get down.. upgrade control and improve pushing balls.. Amicus Professional can play 8 balls in a row.. like a real match play.. Sorry for my english.. |
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