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Umpire Yellow & red Card together |
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rosecitytt
Super Member Joined: 06/28/2015 Location: NA Status: Offline Points: 310 |
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Posted: 10/18/2016 at 12:00am |
Ding Ning -2012 Gold match incidence, conflict with International Umpire Bongelli.
Case re-examined!! |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I don't like to relitigate things but that umpire made herself the center of attention in an Olympic final. I think it was a case study in what not to do.
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ameetnsharma
Super Member Joined: 08/14/2016 Location: Austin, TX USA Status: Offline Points: 166 |
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Hmmm... I disagree. From what I saw in the video, the umpire made the right call. Ding Ning's service was illegal, plus she was really pushing it with the towel breaks. The umpire has to maintain control. |
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Get to the chopper!
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assam
Silver Member Joined: 03/02/2014 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 968 |
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I really think the umpire could choose another path.
As far as I can see that serve was not that short as she was saying. You can see that on replay. |
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ameetnsharma
Super Member Joined: 08/14/2016 Location: Austin, TX USA Status: Offline Points: 166 |
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Ok, watching the rest of the match, I also have questions about the umpire's calls:
Why the call at 8:10? Was it because the toss wasn't straight up or not high enough? And why at 17:20? |
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Get to the chopper!
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assam
Silver Member Joined: 03/02/2014 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 968 |
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I guess the umpire wanted to be the star of the game
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wturber
Premier Member Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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Didn't Ding Ning receive warning and/or faults from other umpires in previous matches for the same thing? If so, then this seems more like a case study of what players should not do.
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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tt-panopticum
Member Joined: 08/22/2011 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 78 |
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This one, with original comentary, IMO gives a much better impression of the situation. All the "educational" rosecitytt bubbles I've seen seem to be made for the "nightmare" sort of umpires - just my personal opinion of course. |
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wturber
Premier Member Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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Yes. A better impression, including the confusion over what was actually being called. The announcer seems to think she was faulted for "not vertical." I think the fault was for not tossing from a stationary hand. He also thought she hot a red/yellow card for asking about the serve. I think otherwise. I think it was for delaying play - something she had been previously warned about. This is an example of what happens when the de facto tradition of not calling certain faults runs into a situation where an umpire decides to enforce the de jure (actual) rules. What was her motivation for actually enforcing the rules when that is not the standard? I have no idea. |
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Kind of my impression also, to be honest. |
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ameetnsharma
Super Member Joined: 08/14/2016 Location: Austin, TX USA Status: Offline Points: 166 |
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The umpire should clarify this type of thing. Or we need much more sophisticated hand gestures from umpires to clarify exactly what rule is being enforced. Edited by ameetnsharma - 10/19/2016 at 2:10pm |
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Get to the chopper!
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LOOPMEISTER
Platinum Member Joined: 11/13/2008 Location: U.S.A. Status: Offline Points: 2486 |
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Also, as I remember, this was around the time when the refs were making attempts to crack down on illegal stuff, and many players were being called on serves throughout the world tour, etc.
Ironically, in the last few years serves have become even more illegal.
Edited by LOOPMEISTER - 10/19/2016 at 2:24pm |
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ameetnsharma
Super Member Joined: 08/14/2016 Location: Austin, TX USA Status: Offline Points: 166 |
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Problem is lack of consistency, and lack of clarity on what they're being called on for exactly. |
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Get to the chopper!
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heavyspin
Gold Member Joined: 08/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1534 |
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Note that Ding Ning had been issued a yellow card before the yellow/red combo when she took too long (about 2 seconds more than Li X) to return to the table at the start of one of the games. Also note that most announcers were not on site and were using a video feed from London. What made it confusing for the announcers and viewers was that the video feed did not show the first yellow so the yellow/red seemed to be the first instance of any card shown by the umpire but was, in fact, the second time the umpire showed Ding Ning a card.
Edited by heavyspin - 10/19/2016 at 3:38pm |
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berndt_mann
Gold Member Joined: 02/02/2015 Location: Tucson, Arizona Status: Offline Points: 1719 |
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It's probably too late to relitigate things; I suspect that the statute of limitations for umpire malfeasance has long since run out. It might not be a bad idea, however, for players such as Ding to have a lawyer who specializes in table tennis law present at every match, most particularly at an Olympic final. Then, should she get double carded again, she could plead her case with the help of counsel to her peers (Liu Xiaoxia, Zhang Yining, Deng Yaping). An Olympic final is far too important a match not to have a lawyer present should some arrogant umpire card you for doing what you are not supposed to do.
Edited by berndt_mann - 10/20/2016 at 1:23am |
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bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
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kuifje
Super Member Joined: 04/06/2010 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 136 |
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For what it's worth: the main commentator in the video is Matthew Syed, a former England player who had a world ranking of about 25 or so in the late 90s.
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asifgunz
Gold Member Joined: 09/15/2013 Location: Queens NY Status: Offline Points: 1448 |
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She turnt up on ding ding.
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"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
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rosecitytt
Super Member Joined: 06/28/2015 Location: NA Status: Offline Points: 310 |
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But if Umpire Paola is controversial, why she re-appeared in this (2016) gold match after 4 years....
(is it intentional by ITTF when they see DingNing?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66ffqaGn788 Edited by rosecitytt - 11/30/2016 at 6:02pm |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Well there is no doubt she is controversial, people still argue about whether she was appropriate. As in this thread, for example, where there is not an unanimous opinion.
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penholderxxx
Super Member Joined: 09/19/2016 Location: Asia Status: Offline Points: 451 |
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Am I drunk or what ?
Are you sure that is ms beautiful Paola in the picture ? And I think she did not umpire the women single final match. penholderxxx
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Iloveplayingtabletennis
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rosecitytt
Super Member Joined: 06/28/2015 Location: NA Status: Offline Points: 310 |
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Might want to check what you were drinking. Yeah,ur not drunk. Umpire Paola is gone, this is Umpire Isabelle for Women gold.
Edited by rosecitytt - 12/01/2016 at 7:31am |
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FH:Beijing Swords RPB:Tenergy 05 2.1 |
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