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My Progress Over Time |
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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Thanks for the replies, everyone!
@balldance I'll get other videos up soon! Ones where I lose :) I don't actually play many matches since I spend a lot of time pretending to be a coach lol. The last tournament I played, I won all 4 matches, but the level wasn't so high. I lost a game on the same day as the video above, but the guy didn't want me to upload the video :( I lost a match this Wednesday against a long pips player, which I'm planning to upload! It was a close match, and the last time we played, I lost deuce in the 5th, so I thought I could win, but a combination of bad decisions and being weak against long pips ended with me losing 1-3, though losing deuce in games 2 and 4. A guy I played kinda recently (no video because it was at a school) said that my balls have a lot more spin than he expects and since I always move into position to attack the next ball, it forces him to try for higher quality shots and better placements, resulting in more unforced errors. @kindof99 No idea, but maybe around there! I'm improving slowly but consistently. I think fatt has a good analysis of my style! @fatt I love playing, and do very well against spin based players. Conventional players, like you said :) I find flat hitters hard to play if they're able to consistently drive low underspin balls, too. I also find long pips players hard to play if they're aggressive with weak/pop up balls. If they're passive, I generally do okay. I think I'm quite strong against choppers, but I've never played a very good one.
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mjamja
Platinum Member Joined: 05/30/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2895 |
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Looks like you have one of my big problems. When the ball gets faster and with more spin you tend to block defensively. At the camp I attended last week there was an emphasis on hitting higher quality balls back instead of returning safely but weak and hoping your opponent will miss. At higher levels you need to do a little more to force those errors.
We did a number of serve,receive,open drills where the 4th ball was to be counter attacked or at a minimum blocked very aggressively. We also did one where you blocked loops but were always looking to counter-attack any weak or short loop. If like me you go too long without learning more aggressive blocking and counter-attacking it becomes very hard to break the safe,slow,high block habit. Mark |
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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Hello Mark! That I do. Although in the video it looks like I have a lot more free time to be more aggressive for most shots, during the match it never feels that way. It's a habit that needs to be broken for sure. Many others have also mentioned it (just last week fatt did too). I need to be more aggressive regardless of having more misses. I think I'm subconsciously too afraid of missing.
In practice I can always be more aggressive. I think it comes down to requiring less reading and anticipation since during practice balls are generally more predictable. I've always hoped that with more practice, better anticipation, I would naturally break this habit. And to some degree I have, being much more aggressive more often than I did in the past, but I'm still plagued with many soft blocks during matches! It's especially noticeable when my opponent opens first. Actually, there are a few things I'm currently working on which I'm hoping will alleviate this problem a bit. It's actually not a direct solution, but something I feel is an underlying cause of the problem most of the time. The first one is my backhand is too passive/weak. So I've been working on being more aggressive with the backhand. My backhand lacks wrist and is mostly a forearm stroke. When trying to take the ball early and be aggressive, I feel like I need more wrist to generate a quick explosive power burst in a small stroke. The second problem is that I favour my forehand too much. Many of the soft blocks happen when I try to pivot, but I don't move my legs far enough, so I end up moving from a ball coming to my backhand to a ball coming towards my elbow, which is really hard to apply power, so I just soft block it. I need to pivot more wide, or use my backhand instead. So far I'm thinking using my backhand more will be better because I often get punished by the block/counter to my wide forehand after I pivot.
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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This is a huge improvement over your last few videos, you've tightened up the backswing significantly and shortened your stroke! I think you're in the right direction, don't worry too much about increasing power....Youve got one of the more deadly styles which is a consistent looping game. It kinda looks like a lower level Ding Ning style haha... What's the use of hitting powerloops if you miss more than you hit and can't recover?
One area I think you should work on is your BH opening loop...right now you're pushing a lot of them back. If you have a consistent spinny BH opening you would be able to gain control of the rally in your advantage which will lift your game significantly. You might have to sacrifice quite a few games and lose lots of points to build it into your game, but I think it'll be well worth it! |
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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TT newbie
Gold Member Joined: 11/25/2011 Location: Far Far Away Status: Offline Points: 1391 |
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I think this is one of the most mental part of TT: calculate the amount of power to apply to the ball and still maintain on the rally without giving an easy ball to your opponent. All in fractions of second. This is the beauty of the sport, the dynamic thing.
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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Thank you blahness. I've been working on compacting my strokes this last year. I think forcing myself to play closer to the table and versing better players will help keep my strokes more compact. Having my name and Ding Ning's in the same sentence is as big of a complement anyone can give, so thank you :) I do like her style, and I've been trying to play more of a women's style. I think she has a good balance. A women's style, but with her reach, she looks like she plays a TINY bit further than some of the shorter females and adapts well between bigger and smaller strokes depending on time. On the same page, I also like Hina Hayata quite a bit (as she also plays left handed)!
My backhand is still a mess after spending probably 2.5 years working on it quite consistently every week. The consistency has definitely improved, along with taking the ball a little earlier with a slightly more closed racket angle. It still lacks power, and I still lack confidence opening against underspin. During practice I do it decently though. I'm going to try and do it more in games, even if it means losing. Hopefully I'll be able to show some videos with a good amount of backhand openings too in a year or so :) @TTnewbie Yes, I agree! It's definitely hard to apply heavy pressure on every ball, especially as an amateur player! My "rival" asked me to play another match with him yesterday after I finished teaching the students. Sadly, I lost 0-3 this time, but it was a very close game. 9, 9, 8 or something. I actually had 3 serve misses in the first set, and unfortunately ended up behind 1-5 at the start of the second set. I still think I'll have a decent chance at beating him the next time we play. He's a lot more passive than me, but there are a few more things I need to work on. This was an important point. I was down 9-10 in the first set, and I should have won the point to take it to deuce, but couldn't convert it. He chos very loud, by the way! Unfortunately at the start of the second set, my camera died and I didn't realize. Would have been nice to analyse sets 2 and 3. |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Yes ignore people who keep asking you to add more power to your strokes...I think you have a very good balance now, as you get better your confidence and power level will increase gradually. Ding Ning and Hina Hayata are definitely very worthy models! Good luck to your backhand work! Ps: on the rally, you did really well except at the end where you decided to switch to his FH :( In general once someone is away from the table you keep pressuring their BH until you create a chance to finish them off on the FH. One stroke you could learn (very useful for lefties!) is a slower spinnier FH sidespin loop to really increase the angle they have to cover. Just contact the ball more to the side, watch them run, block their return to their FH next, then end with a smug thug life smile! :)))) |
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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Thanks blahness! I definitely had the upper hand there being the one on the attack. When I pivoted he actually moved towards the forehand side, so if I did go down the line again, he would have been out of position and I probably could have taken the point. In the end though, my intention was to go much wider than I actually did. I never do it, but a fading inside out forehand definitely would have been a better play.
So far I've never played side spin loops. The only time I do is when I'm out of position and late to my forehand, so I end up contacting the left side of the ball. When I'm in position, it's always just a regular drive/loop. I definitely want to add more sidespin balls to my game. I'll start thinking about it and practicing it every now and then. I think I'll aim to practice it consistently early next year. So far I still want to work on my backhand opening, flicks, then chiquitas in that order. Thanks again for the advice, blahness!!
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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A small update! I mentioned it in another thread before, but a new table tennis school opened relatively close (1 hour 15 minutes drive away) to where I live. Last month I decided to try it out. I've been going once a week for 5 weeks now. The class size varies, but at the moment it's 3-4 people plus the coach. Each class is 90 minutes.
I have to say, I LOVEEEE the classes so much. It's so much fun and at the end, you actually feel like you've accomplished something. In the roughly 5 years I've been playing table tennis now, this is what I've been looking for! My local clubs are all just for fun, and people don't practice to improve. I only wish it was closer so I could go more often. Here's a short video of some of the multiball. Unfortunately since there are 3-4 people rotating with the coach doing the multiball, it's generally only like 20 balls until you rotate. I would actually prefer to keep going until my legs stop moving haha. The first drill in the video (I included 4 but there were many many more) was backhand, middle, backhand, forehand. The second one was about 80% of the table random with occasional fast balls, use your backhand if it comes to the backhand side, and forehand for the rest. I actually did unexpectedly well considering it was random. Each drill we do 2 times before we move onto the next one, so this was the second time. The third one was forehand half court random. The last one was probably the hardest. It was random fast balls to either backhand or forehand, and I need to block them. This was the second time and he actually slowed the balls down quite a lot because I only returned like half the balls the first time. I'll be continuing to go for as long as I can :) (which might not be as long as I hope I can :( ) I can only imagine how fulfilling practice must be for the people who dedicate hours a session, multiple times a week to training, and not just "playing"... Oh I envy those people!!
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mjamja
Platinum Member Joined: 05/30/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2895 |
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Mickd,
You are an inspiration. Working so hard to improve your game and at same time helping others just starting out. You are an example of what is the best of the spirit of the game of TT. Mark |
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Tt Gold
Gold Member Joined: 10/22/2014 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 1302 |
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Your backhand looks good. There's a simple reason why your doing very well in the irregular drill. Your strokes have a very short movement, which enables you to always be on time for the shot. But the problem I see with that is your forehand. Normally you'd have a neutral waiting position, then a swing back, the actual stroke till contact and the follow through. After the follow through you'd optimally want to go back to the neutral waiting position. That's where a lot of players struggle and just watch the ball instead of getting ready quickly again. Now with your forehand you don't have this last phase. You're not going from the follow through back to the neutral position, because your stroke is so short that your follow through only reaches the neutral position. It's not wrong to use a short stroke, but that requires an even more optimal timing of all technical elements. It seems like your doing a topspin stroke, but without actually playing a fast topspin. Imo the short is a little too short to generate a high quality shot. You should probably use your body more if you're planning on keeping the stroke that short.
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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Thank you, fatt! I really didn't want to make the drive before because the only class I could go to was from 8:30 to 10pm Monday nights, so I would get home close to midnight. I'd also have to learn straight away work. But by chance I was in the area one night for work, so I decided to drop by to check have a look at one of the classes. I've been there ever since :)
I really like the coach. He's really nice and in my opinion a good teacher. He doesn't overload you with technical things and generally only concentrates on one of two things at a time. But if you ask him specific questions, he has no problems answering. It says on his profile that he was the National Team Coach at one point. He also came 1st in the All Japan Inter-High School Competition, which is pretty amazing. I don't think he plays competitively anymore though. I wonder how old he is. He doesn't look so old, probably in his 30s. Thanks Mark! I draw a lot of inspiration from your videos! By your age, I hope I'm able to stand, let alone smack winners down the line! I know the US rating system doesn't apply to me at all, but I really want to get to an 'over 2k' level first. I feel like someone my age, who plays as much as I do, should have been able to get there awhile ago. But it's proving quite difficult. Eventually I'd like to get to an 'over 2.2k' level. That's going to be a BIG BIG challenge. Thanks Tt Gold. I never thought the day would come when someone compliments my backhand haha. It's been the bane of my table tennis 'career' so far! I also never thought the day would come when people actually say my stroke is maybe a little too short. A few years ago it was extremely big, and I really felt like it was going to be impossible to get it shorter. The coach was instructing me to use my body to hit harder on my forehand. He was telling me to wait a little longer so I can use more of my body instead of too much arm. As for the neutral waiting position, I've been hearing conflicting information about it. Some people say that because the game is much faster now (or at least we're playing closer to the table), you should go straight from your finish position to the backswing, skipping the neutral position. What do you think about this? I hear it both ways. That said, I am still pausing a little at the finish position, so maybe I should utilize that time to get back to the neutral position. Though I feel like if the ball got any faster, I might not have the time.
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mjamja
Platinum Member Joined: 05/30/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2895 |
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I have run into some of the same discussion on returning to ready position vs holding finish. I think it is complicated by all the combinations of what shot you just hit, what shot is most likely to be hit back, and what shot you are trying to hit next. You often see players return to a "ready to block" ready position with the Bh side of racket facing their opponent when they expect a strong attack. It is not their normal ready position. A standard Bh finish is pretty close to a standard ready position so not much difference there. From the finish of a standard Fh you pretty much go through the ready position to get to the end of backswing position for a 2nd Fh. So you do not lose anything going back to ready if the next ball is to your Fh and you save a little time. If the next ball is to your Bh you lose time going to ready first (racket moves greater distance). However, it takes a different wrist action to set up your blade angle to hit topspin so maybe the shorter time (good) is offset by the inconsistency due to having two different backswing techniques for the same shot (bad).
Mark Edited by mjamja - 10/17/2018 at 9:29pm |
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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Now that you two have mentioned it, after watching the video a few more times, I don't like how my forehand and backhand end positions are different. Not so much different in terms of the position, but the direction the racket is facing. So yeah, I will try to return to a more neutral position after the stroke, and start from there. I'll ask the coach about it next week, too.
Thanks :)
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Tt Gold
Gold Member Joined: 10/22/2014 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 1302 |
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To be honest I never really go back to a neutral position. At least I'm not thinking about it. I think if those different steps are visible, then ones movement seems choppy. Whenever you play a shot, your following movements should naturally lead to the next shot. That's at least how you play more fluid. The only things one could do wrong in this department is 1. Play a stroke and watch the shot instead of getting ready again. By that I mean just not moving at all after the shot. And 2. Droping the racket after every shot. That's a problem a lot of people have, especially on the backhand. This is one of the main reasons why backhand topspins against topspin fly off the table. The best thing I'd suggest if you want to have a good preparation for the next shot is to just not let the racket drop down. Which is basically going into a ready position,but more naturally.
@ mark I guess this is also the best advice that I can give you. See the stroke as two components only. Swing back and then the actual shot. If you try to think about the natural position as a third phase, then you just get caught up. Remember to keep the racket high after the shot and then just play the next stroke. A really good exercise is middle/corner. One ball to the middle and the next one either to the backhand or forehand. This is one of the hardest exercises, but improves your preparation for the next shot immensely. In order to do this exercise successfully you need to move your feet every time in between the shots, watch the ball, so you know if it's going left or right and finally keep the racket up after every shot as you have to keep your strokes compact. |
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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Thanks Tt Gold. Right now I'm still taking my racket a little too low against backhand topspin balls. So I get what you mean! I've been practicing more backhand loop openings recently. And that has given me more opportunities to hit a 5th ball backhand topspin. More often than not the ball is flying off the table. |
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balldance
Super Member Joined: 01/28/2009 Status: Offline Points: 246 |
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Congrats Mickd! I think it's the first time you have a real coach (?) I'm sure you will improve a lot with the classes. As for returning to the ready position after each shot, just watch Timo Boll, every time I watch him, I always wonder how he can do it so effortless and effective. Everytime he hits the ball, he returns to the neutral position (arm and body) and ready to use either BH or FH depending on where the ball goes next. I have the habit of switching to my FH for ready position after the opening loop and I'm jammed when the ball goes to my BH. It's hard to fix without the multiball random placement drill that you did. And btw, you also play somewhat similar to Timo, so you will learn a lot from watching his videos. Edited by balldance - 10/19/2018 at 4:21am |
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FruitLoop
Super Member Joined: 09/20/2018 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 405 |
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Not letting the racket drop is good advice, if you watch the pros they keep the racket high the whole time.
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Tt Gold
Gold Member Joined: 10/22/2014 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 1302 |
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If you wanna see good transitioning watch chuang chih yuan or yah an. They probably have the best forehand backhand transitioning in the world. And if you want to watch a fluid change between shots watch oh sang-eun. He has the most fluid playstyle in history. He looks like a wave in the water doing its thing.
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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@balldance Yes! Really looking forward to seeing how this works out! I'll probably sign up for 2 classes a week next month. I'll try it for a month to see how I feel. I'll probably have to cut it back to once a week the month after (on top of work it's tiring because I get home pass midnight). Also, Timo Boll is an inspiration to all. Love watching his videos!!
@FruitLoop Yeah, I was starting to get confused with some of the comments earlier, but I've calmed myself down again haha. @Tt Gold Thank you. I had a look on YouTube, but since I'm at work now I won't be able to do any extensive analysis until after ;)
I didn't get to do any multiball this week. A few things didn't work out well this week... First, the main coach wasn't there yesterday. He had to go on a business trip to Tokyo. So I had a different coach. You can REALLY tell the different between a great coach and an okay coach. We also had 5 people in the group (the most I've had so far). Maybe it was because he was just filling in for a session, but I felt like the session was extremely disorganized. In the end, I hardly felt like I gained anything from the session and to be honest, if I had him on my first session last month, I probably wouldn't have signed up for it. Next Monday there's no session (5th week in a month), but I'm planning to go to another class to see how it is. Apparently there's only 1 other student in that class, so I should be able to get more time with the coach. |
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Tyler45
Member Joined: 01/01/2014 Location: Spain Status: Offline Points: 86 |
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Tt gold thank you for the reminder about oh sang eun. Just watched a wonderful compilation video. How smooth. And what incredible footwork, always in balance, little tiny bouncing steps from side to side. Makes it so easy to transition when you are always perfectly in balance. Keeping the racket up, especially for the 2nd topspin is vital and imo can only be trained with multi ball or specific drills. Good luck mick!
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Tt Gold
Gold Member Joined: 10/22/2014 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 1302 |
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@mickd Even if you don't have a coach, or a bad one, you should still try to improve. Not everyone has a coach, and they still manage to improve. It's all about putting in the effort and evaluating yourself. Good luck
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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@Tyler45 Thank you!
@Tt Gold Oh, you don't have to tell me that :) I'm always trying to improve! I'll be going through the videos I took yesterday and working from there.
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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My coach is back! There was no practice last week, so it had been 3 weeks. He helped me with various problems in my technique including: timing on backhand and forehand, using more body and less arm, leg position and movement to attack barely long underspin balls, opening down the line, technique for backhand to generate a higher quality ball, and 5th ball attacks with the backhand.
At the end for about 15 minutes he was blocking the ball randomly for me after pushing long to either my forehand or backhand. I was trying to return all the balls to his backhand. While there are still so many things I need to work on, and lots of things I see that need improvement in this video, I feel like my backhand has improved drastically. The last 2 rallies at 0:40 and 0:53 had some 5th+ ball backhands at a quality that I've never been able to do before. Also, I didn't notice during training, but one of the balls I hit started to just roll on the table after hitting the net! It looks like it might have also hit the edge of the net post. Looks sooooo unnatural seeing a ball just roll. If anyone is on the edge about getting a coach even if it's just for an hour... I highly recommend trying it. I feel like all the improvement I've achieved in the last month taking coaching once a week would have taken over half a year to achieve. And this is laying down more solid foundations which will hopefully help me improve even faster as time goes on Not sure if anyone would be interested in the advice he's giving me for specific things, but if so maybe I can cut those parts of the videos out so other people can see too. It's nothing unique. Probably just being shown it and knowing exactly what I should work on to get the best results with someone giving immediate feedback that helps the most.
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balldance
Super Member Joined: 01/28/2009 Status: Offline Points: 246 |
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Impressive progress there, Mickd, in such a short time. Your BH looks much better, especially the opening BH looks very solid. Keep it up. No advice this time because you already have a very good coach.
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Tt Gold
Gold Member Joined: 10/22/2014 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 1302 |
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Looking better, but one thing that bothers me is your movements. They look very choppy. I said it last time and I'll say it again, you need to use your body more on the forehand. You have the time, so you should do it. Once you reach a certain level, you'll lack power with that forehand. Keep it up
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balldance
Super Member Joined: 01/28/2009 Status: Offline Points: 246 |
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I noticed the exact same things. But I assume his coach knows what to do. It will take time to improve those.
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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Thank you balldance and TtGold!
Yeah, that's one of the main issues I'm working on (along with many many others haha). During that session I worked with 2 coaches, we mostly worked on my backhand because it's a much weaker part of my game, but for about 30 minutes we did some forehand stuff. With my main coach, we worked on timing (I hit the ball too far in front of my body, thus not allowing me to use my body), and trunk rotation (not wiggling my body from left to right and using more rotation to generate power). With one of the other coaches (first time with him that day), we worked a little on weight transfer since I mostly have my weight leaning on my back leg, without properly transferring it into the other leg during the shot). Also, I have this bad habit of jumping forward when I smash the ball. So he was helping me with that. Better footwork! In the video above I felt like I wasn't able to incorporate the forehand things we practiced well. Various parts of our backhand practice made it in though! I think the one area that did seep in a little on some shots was timing. I was thinking a little more about timing, waiting a little longer than usual to hit the ball. It's actually interesting to see everyone pick up on the same thing. It means it's a big part of my game that needs fixing :) Thank you!
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mickd
Forum Moderator Joined: 04/27/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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It's been awhile since I posted here! I haven't been able to play many matches recently but I did go to a small tournament organised by the table tennis coaching center I visit.
I did surprisingly well, but I was also very lucky with the draws. Here's one of the matches I lost. It was my first time playing her and she uses short pips on her forehand. The score was 7-11, 6-11, 11-7, 7-11 with her winning 3-1. I think I did a lot of things better than I usually do. I think 5 of the 7 points I took in the first set were from her failing to return my serves, with most being short. I couldn't rally against her, though. I think my serves are really improving, and they might even be above my playing level. There is one long serve to the opponent's forehand which I really need to stop doing. You'll see me do it like 3 times in the match and all 3 times she just blasted the ball past me. They were too slow, high, and not long enough... BTW, sorry about the horrible viewing angle. I got to the tournament and somehow my tripod head had snapped off. So I had to just leave the camera sitting on a desk. 1 or 2 points in the second set is missing because someone was standing in front of my camera. They also bumped it slightly, which is why the viewing angle gets a little worse haha. Let me know what you guys think. I have a lot of thoughts myself, of course. I think there are things I did better than usual and things I need to work on, but I'll wait to see what others see. Thanks!! |
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benfb
Platinum Member Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
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It is an interesting camera angle. Actually, I like low cameras but it was a pity it wasn't more to one side or the other.
Looking this over, I don't recall you being so backhand oriented. Are you always that way? I guess I've mostly seen your drills where game style isn't apparent. You start your receive from a stance I would normally expect for a forehand dominant player. But as soon as the ball is in motion you move to the center of the table and square up to the table, so that you can mostly hit backhand balls. From that position, your few forehand shots are weak (often passive blocks or weak loops). It just seems to me you really handicap yourself that way. Some people play with a BH stance because they have such powerful BH shots. Others do it because they have poor footwork and need to cover the table with minimum movement. Neither of those seem to apply here. You weren't dominating with your BH shots and you look like you move very well. It's just like you're afraid to use you FH loop? If I were you coach at that match, I would tell you to stop being so timid and attack more with your FH.
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