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karis h is out! |
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koshkin
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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You are welcome, Victor. Are you playing with one of the Karis rubbers? When I tried Karis M, I thought it would be right up your alley. ILya
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
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I had a couple hours with Karis H on a Tibhar Samsonov CB I got from DreiZ recently. MAN... I can really see why Elite Korean amature sponsored player from Nexy Korea in their vid loves this rubber. It can really move out on a fast/stiff blade. Power topspin in its simplest form of no frills minimalist overpower. If you have a real bang impact on FH, you will be crushing the ball through your opponent. Players were asking for a much faster version of Karis... they got it with Karis H. This rubber will make you thirsty. The top end on this is easily faster than M+... by a country mile... with a boatload of topspin. You gotta have a looser hand on your softer shots to get good control with H, but who wants to play soft with a weapon like this? Still, all my strokes adjusted to Karis M and M+... the improved touch those rubbers gave me with reasonable all wood blades like KJH and Lissom... gunna be hard to unseat my FH rubber choice there. Maybe I can tame it too, but M and M= were right up my alley.
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koshkin
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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It is faster, but it is far from uncontrollable. That topsheet is pretty special and I really like how it works with a harder sponge. For me, it is a choice between H and M+. In your experience, is there a significant difference between red and black topsheets? I have a red M, black M+ and black H, so I am not sure how much of the difference I am seeing comes from the sponge and how much from the topsheet. Thanks ILya
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
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The customers collective seem to be in love with black, maybe it is magical. It sells 3x more than anything. I play both colors, I like them both. I will have to try Karis H on my Allround-ish Lissom. The pre-production version of the M+ on that blade has a good top end.
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VictorK
Silver Member Joined: 08/08/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 647 |
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Yes, I've been playing wiht Karis M on both sides (on Nexy Calix II) for the past 6 months, and like the rubber quite a bit. < id="_npfido" ="applicationpfido" height="0">
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koshkin
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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Do you feel there is any difference between red and black topsheets?
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VictorK
Silver Member Joined: 08/08/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 647 |
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I haven't noticed any difference, but it doesn't mean there isn't - It just never occurred to me to test for that :) I will try to do it next time I play. |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I like black better on Karis M. Slightly.
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koshkin
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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Why?
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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I think the coming generation of ESN rubbers are in a good position to overtake Tenergy, definitely amongst amateurs and upcoming pros. Butterfly has its work cut out for it.
I will get a sheet of Karis H to test but it is quite likely I will be using R47 or Aurus Prime in the not too distant future. IMO, Karis fans will like the new generation of ESN rubbers. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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gekogark1212
Gold Member Joined: 05/06/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1121 |
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Yeah we now just need a flood of stock. It seems that R47 is facing some sort of worldwide shortage!
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(\__/)
(='.'=) But there's no sense crying over every mistake, (")_(") You just keep on trying till you run out of cake. |
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koshkin
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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I had another practice with Karis H and Nittaku Hammond Power.
Hammond Power is a nice rubber, but lack of stability on blocks, hits and big loops is bothering me a little. It is awesome for slow controlled loops though. I think I am going to wrap up with it. Karis H I still like quite a bit, but with my blade it is a little too hard overall when combined with my Mazunov blade and its hard outer plies. I do like it on the BH. I think this topsheet just agrees with my backhand, since I like all three version of Karis on the BH. I still have three sheets of MX-S left, so that goes back onto my FH. I will rotate through different version of Karis on my BH and see which one I decide to stick with. For now, I think I like M+ the most. In principle, I should probably try Karis H on a slightly softer blade, but I do not feel like experimenting with blades again. ILya
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Makelele
Super Member Joined: 11/28/2009 Status: Offline Points: 416 |
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ILya, I am nowadays playing with MX-S on my backhand and I am interested in how the three Karis would be compared on that side against the MX-S in terms of speed and spin. I am particularly interested in the banana flick and the backhand loop near the table.
I know you are playing with MX-S on your forehand, but may be you have tried it on your backhand before. Thanks. Edited by Makelele - 06/09/2017 at 4:38pm |
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VictorK
Silver Member Joined: 08/08/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 647 |
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I tried (for about 30 minutes) to play with red and black Karis M alternating between BH and FH. I think (it might be in my head though, lol) that I noticed a minor difference between the black and red, with black playing a little "crispier" than red, but in general, I find the playing characteristic very similar so switching between red and black is rather seamless, and it doesn't require any noticeable adjustments for me. I also had one practice session with Karis H black on FH, but since I tend to be slow evaluating equipment, I'll need to play few more times, and against few different styles before I express my opinion.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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By the way, I tried Rasanter R47 today. Didn't like it. I will stick with Karis M.
I did 't really give it much time. So I shouldn't write a review. I used it jus enough to decide I preferred what I've been using and I gave my R47 sheets to a clubmate. My black sheet of Karis M is a little faster than the red one. |
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rocketman222
Gold Member Joined: 01/06/2007 Location: Walnut Creek,CA Status: Offline Points: 1152 |
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I want to be baal's clubmate! |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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That's pretty interesting. I do think that R47 is a spinnier version of M+. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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h0n1g
Silver Member Joined: 05/03/2005 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 839 |
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For me, the R47 was significantly faster than then M+ with less control and a different curve.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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I find it interesting that people focus on the speed but not on the linearity. The problem I had with Tenergy was that I would do nothing and the rubber would do something. I don't get that feeling with R47. The arc ia higher as the rubber is more spin sensitive, but there is a dead feeling for me when I do nothing that is miles away from MX-P, T05 etc. I gave it to a Tenergy user and he couldn't stand it. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
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Tried H on a friend's Jang Jike ALC, much more controllable on the ALC over the CB carbon, was what I expected, a more powerful version of Karis on high end, but surprisingly still good on openers and serves. On the CB it made you want to crack everything, not a good idea, interestingly enough, I had a good match with that setup midweek reaching 9-9 in 5th to lose vs much better opponent, won majority on my points on touch shots, not power finishes... go figure.
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Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
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rocketman222
Gold Member Joined: 01/06/2007 Location: Walnut Creek,CA Status: Offline Points: 1152 |
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NL, do you think R47 is closer to how Xiom Vega Pro plays, as in pretty dead on the lower gears?
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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R47 felt like it might be a little spinnier and it has some of the good linear properties of Karis. I just liked the feel of Karis better. What really surprised me is that Karis was faster on a Viscaria.Closezt thing I have tried compared to R47 is ELS.
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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FWIW: I found R47 very different from EL-S: With EL-S, if you hit harder, the throw becomes very low. R47 maintains its throw on harder hits (similar to MX-P) and is easier to spin with than other 47 deg rubbers (because of the thinner topsheet).
R47 and R42 are excellent for BH for me.
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Trade feedback:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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It is probably better to listen to slevin's comments on this compared to mine. He has probably spent more time with both rubbers than I have. All I can say is that I was expecting something quite different with R47 and I was not very analytical about my reasons for not liking it. Maybe I would like the V version better? Not going to spend money to find out. They were selling R47 at a nicely discounted price at WTTC and it was an impulse buy. I tend to make my judgments on rubbers pretty quickly. Mostly the stuff I stick with for years are things I liked right away. I liked Karis right away. Tenergy 64 also, and after that I liked Tenergy 05 right away and stayed with it for 8 years. Same with my blade. I am back to the Viscaria I have been using for many years.
Karis H is interesting to me though, but I preferred M to M+, even though in general I prefer harder rubbers. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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Amazingly, I have never used Vega Pro.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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koshkin
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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Thanks, Victor. This is similar to my impressions. I think the black sheet serves a little better, but for the rest of it, they are pretty close. ILya
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koshkin
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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I have tried MX-S on the BH and if my Karis experiments do not work out, I will go back to using it on both sides of the table. I like Karis a little more for banana flick and short game in general. Karis is less sensitive to incoming spin, so while I can make a little more spin with MX-S, I have to be more precise with it. Karis is more forgiving, so I can go for my shots a little more and place them a little better. Opening loop off of a deep push is better with MX-S. It is a little grippier and lifts the ball with a little more ease. Blocks are better with Karis. Generally, passive play is much better with Karis. ILya
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Makelele
Super Member Joined: 11/28/2009 Status: Offline Points: 416 |
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Thanks ILya.
Keep us updated with your experiments with Karis in your EJ's cycle of the year! |
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koshkin
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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I think my EJ cycle is coming to a close.
I tried the Karis H on my old Stiga Allround that hails back from mid-70s yesterday and it was spectacular. As a matter of background: I was using an old Stiga Allround Bengtsson in some form or another for five or six years prior to switching to Mazunov a few months ago. I played with the Mazunov back in the 38mm days and since the plastic ball has a harder feel, I though I'd give it a try. Karis H did not distinguish itself on the Mazunov, but it is superb on the old Sitga. With the stiff Mazunov, the hard sponge of the Karis H was a bit too much. I suspect it would work well for a better player than me, but I do not quite have the touch. Now, the more felxible Allround was perfect with the Karis H. For drop shots, pushes and blocks, I get the crisp contact I like. However, for spinny openers (this is where I had a hard time with Karis H on a Mazunov), I can use the flex of the blade to get a little more dwell time. There is also extra dwell time on bigger loops, which requires slightly different timing (ball release is different), but works well enough for me. Really, the biggest difference was with sower loops especially trying to attack half-long serves or serve returns. With Karis H on a flexible blade, carefully spinning the return onto the table was very natural and I could place the ball deep on the table. I mostly used it on the FH. I did flip onto the BH briefly to try and my overall impressions are similar. Now, I think I am reasonably settled with Karis H on the FH and I need to decide what to use on the BH. I am leaning toward another Karis H or toward Karis M+, but will take some more experimentation. In the meantime, I will order another Karis H and set it up on my backup blade. I travel for work a fair bit, so I carry my spare racket with me in case I get a chance to go practice somewhere. ILya
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h0n1g
Silver Member Joined: 05/03/2005 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 839 |
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Koshkin, very interesting read and I would agree that even on the M+, you need a flexible blade. I personally don't think the Karis in general works super well with stiff blades at all. It feels dead. Even on the Vega Pro (blade) I found the M to be quite 'dead'.
I have since tried the Karis on a Violin and it was much better/alive.
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