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Readily visible Anti's ? Yes, yes, yes ... |
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igorponger 
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Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
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 Topic: Readily visible Anti's ? Yes, yes, yes ...Posted: 07/23/2019 at 7:47pm |
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Those twiddling folks would gain advantage a lot by using the red and black coloration scheme. It is a cunning, deceitful tactics at any rate, thus unmerited advantage.
ITTF is now considering some better possibility for the opponent to unmask twiddler's actions, and how to make the twiddler's rubbers more recognisable for opponent. And the best possible solution seems to be Anti's and LP's rubbers of conspicuous, vivid colors other than red&black (for some good examples see the TUTTLE colourful anti's). Furthermore, all the red&black anti's should be excluded from a competitive play. Be happy.   Edited by igorponger - 07/23/2019 at 8:00pm |
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Fulanodetal
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Joined: 06/28/2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1226 |
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Posted: 07/23/2019 at 7:51pm |
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It's easy to play against anti.
Either try it yourself and learn the disadvantages of using anti, or have a coach play with anti ant teach you how to deal with anti. One 1 hour lesson should do it. It is nothing complicated at all. A five year old can deal with anti. FdT |
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ericd937
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Joined: 06/01/2012 Location: Saigon, Vietnam Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
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Posted: 07/23/2019 at 8:24pm |
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Yes, Anti is typically quite easy to deal with. However, in the hands of a skilled player even anti can be a formidable weapon up to a certain level. What level do you think that is? 2300? Yes, I understand that a 2300 anti player is rare, but they are out there.
Due to a problem with pain in my hand, I've recently began experimenting with anti and short pimple again on my backhand. I got some wins against 1700-1800 players with anti on my backhand, but it would take me a lot more training and practice to play much better than that with anti. I can play at a lot higher level with short pimples since I've trained a lot more with short pimples in the past. For that reason, I didn't stick with anti since I intend to go back to double inverted as soon as my hand starts feeling better. For me, the biggest disadvantage of anti was in serve receive. I tried to step around and hit forehands as much as possible, but there was nothing I could do against wide fast no spin (or light topspin) balls to my backhand. I was dropping those into the net or giving a weak return that was easy to attack. Once I got into a rally it was more difficult for opponents to exploit the weaknesses of anti unless they were higher level players who typically beat me anyhow when I played with double inverted.
Edited by ericd937 - 07/23/2019 at 8:35pm |
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Current Setup: TBS FH T80/BH D80
Official USATT Rating 1815 Current estimated level: 1800-1900. |
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Matt Pimple
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Joined: 12/03/2012 Location: Phoenix Status: Offline Points: 1995 |
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Posted: 07/23/2019 at 8:56pm |
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Here are a couple of high level anti players:
These guys are above 2300 in particular Luca and Sriram. Returning no spin serves is a matter of practice and works very well with the new thick Dr. Neubauer ABS2 anti. I play anti myself (see signature) and got a >1900 USATT rating.
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ericd937
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Joined: 06/01/2012 Location: Saigon, Vietnam Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
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Posted: 07/23/2019 at 9:52pm |
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Do you think its possible to play anti and become a top ten player in the world? How about top 50?
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Current Setup: TBS FH T80/BH D80
Official USATT Rating 1815 Current estimated level: 1800-1900. |
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ericd937
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Joined: 06/01/2012 Location: Saigon, Vietnam Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
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Posted: 07/23/2019 at 10:04pm |
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Good players. It's pretty rare to find anti players at that level. I've recently seen some Youtube videos of the Der Materialspezialist super slow anti rubbers. I think those would be kinda fun to try, but I'm not willing to invest 40 or 50 bucks a sheet. I also read the reviews that the sponges on those are super fragile and you couldn't change the rubber from blade to blade. I'd wanna test it out on several different blades to see which one worked the best.
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Current Setup: TBS FH T80/BH D80
Official USATT Rating 1815 Current estimated level: 1800-1900. |
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Fulanodetal
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Posted: 07/23/2019 at 10:21pm |
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Somehow I doubt igorponger is playing against any of these unicorn 2300 rated anti users.
My argument was not that you could not reach a high level using anti. So your argument fails for being a strawman argument. I was responding to igorponger. FdT
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obesechopper
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Posted: 07/23/2019 at 10:25pm |
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The sponges are not really fragile at all. It's the top sheets that are tricky... it's like trying to unstick a piece of glued cardboard. If you cant lift it evenly, any bend will result in a permanent crease in the top sheet. I've ruined many trying to do so... I found a system that works about 90% of the time with the eifht glue. You get a thin knife and slide it along between the blade and sponge, not lifting at all. Slowly peel it half inch by half inch
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haggisv
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Posted: 07/24/2019 at 1:18am |
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I really don't get igorponger's argument... why would another colour be more recognisable? Under current rules you can inspect your opponent's bat and see which is anti. It's pretty easy to remember if it's red or black, and the visual difference is great, so why need another colour?
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Simon_plays
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Posted: 07/24/2019 at 3:54am |
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My guess is that he is referring to low level league play where players might not be in the habit of checking equipment?
Anyway, I want a yellow sheet of anti for messing around with :)
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Matt Pimple
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Posted: 07/24/2019 at 11:50am |
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I have never used any of the Der Materialspezialist so I can't say anything about them but I have used or tested all of the Dr. Neubauer antis and using the right method you can move them from blade to blade. Here is what I do as I recently posted on OOAK:
It actually starts with the right way of gluing it which means that you apply glue on both the blade and the sticky glue sheet on top of the sponge as the instructions say. I use rubber cement for this because it is much easier to remove so I can't speak for what you do with WBG. When using rubber cement and I want to remove the rubber I use acetone (can be purchased at home depot) in a syringe with a thin needle. Apply the acetone slowly between blade and sponge which dissolves the glue and you can then slowly and subsequently lift the rubber off the blade. You can use a plastic spatula or an old credit card to help with lifting it off. I have read on the Noppentest forum that people who use WBG (which you can't simply dissolve) also used a credit card to successfully lift the rubber off the blade without any wrinkles. I hope this helps! |
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obesechopper
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Posted: 07/24/2019 at 10:00pm |
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I've used the dr n antis with the attached glue sheet, and for those I can just slip a knife under one edge and slowly lift up working my way along. The top sheets remain undamaged and I can transfer it to a number of blades before the glue sheet itself looses stickiness or gets too many indents from the knife tip. The dms sponges are much much softer... more delicate for sure and absorb more glue on them.
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icontek
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This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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Posted: 07/25/2019 at 4:32pm |
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I understand igor's argument.
Adding a color that corresponds to anti (or frictionless LP) means that the opponents brain is free to associate the stroke and color with the spin continuation (it's not really reversing) behavior. It essentially gives you one more mnemonic hook to make cause and effect (stroke and ball spin) make more sense. It is still in the spirit of the two color rule, I think. Edited by icontek - 07/25/2019 at 4:46pm |
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dsc13
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Joined: 02/13/2006 Location: SF Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 108 |
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Posted: 07/25/2019 at 7:42pm |
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Apparently someone in ITTF has forgotten or has never been reminded of why only the red and black combination was legalized. In the 70's to mid 80's, there were a number of color choices.
When the 2-color rule was first instituted, you COULD use any two colors you wanted. As usual, many combination players tried to push the limits as far as possible, by using sheets that were similar in color, but still could be considered of "different" colors. One example being using the Original "red" Friendship729, which was a very dark red/burgundy color with a bright red sheet of LPs or anti, and then letting both age naturally, so it was harder to determine which was which in a skilled players hand. Or even dark red 729 with a black sheet was not uncommon. Original "gold" Tornado in combination with Orange JUIC rubber, was another I recall. The rule definition of "contrasting" colors was too hard to enforce effectively, so the hard line of red/black was decided to be the easiest to enforce. Hard to believe that we could be moving back to that rule. If it happens, look for a marked increase of combination bat players to return, so learn how to deal with it! Edited by dsc13 - 07/25/2019 at 7:43pm |
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1dennistt
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Posted: 07/26/2019 at 2:00pm |
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The dark red (actually more like a dark red topsheet with a dark blue sponge making a dark purple) color that Friendship729 had went well with black!  Up close a lot of these combinations were distinguishable fairly easily, however, from 9 feet away it could be difficult to tell the difference. Add to that the fact that the lighting varied even more at tournaments back then, both from tournament to tournament and from one part of the arena to another, and it quickly became an issue. The red and green (?) I think became an issue for those who were color blind to some extent.  Yet another wrinkle was that players could swap rackets, and would have one racket with for example, Green inverted and red long pips and another with the colors reversed. Or they would have 2 rackets with yellow on one side and blue on the other, only one of the rackets would have double inverted the other one would have one side inverted and the other side anti spin. One player I knew even had a whole bag with different equipment setups on different blades. They would swap as often as they could get away with even while you were chasing a stray ball. You can see why all the rules were written to control this chaos. They say if you don't learn from your mistakes you are doomed to repeat them. Here we go again, multi colored rubber round 2. Maybe the ITTF will get it right this time around.  We will see soon. The rules regarding racket exchange during matches should help with some of this. The possibility of the ITTF certifying sponges could also come into play and limit the color available of sponge available under translucent top sheets.So we should be better off, and have more choices. Of course someone has to stock all these different colors of everything.
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Donic Waldner World Champion 1989 ZLC (Inner), Donic BlueStorm Pro (Red) Max, ????? (Black) 1.8 mm)
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Fulanodetal
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Posted: 07/27/2019 at 1:17pm |
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Within ittf sanctioned tourneys, yes the swapping might have been stopped. Not at club play though!!! Seen some unscrupulous players swap rackets in the middle of a game while the opponent was busy retrieving the ball!!! This dude had a racket with lps on one side, smooth on the other, while his second setup was anti on one side, smooth on the other. Sneaky bastard!!!!
FdT
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purpletiesto
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Posted: 07/27/2019 at 4:53pm |
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One side must be black and the other side can only be a certain range of authorised colours. It's totally different to the old days. No issue there.
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Matt Pimple wrote: