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G40+ versus Nittaku Premium 40+ |
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Spin83
Member Joined: 01/28/2013 Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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Do you guys practice with XSF or G40+?
I do also find XSF slow and hard to impart good spin and speed. You really need to smack it. I've trained yesterday with G40+,but it's too early to say anything. I wanted to order XSF 3 star for training, but reading this review points out that G40+ would be better choise. You guys order from tt11?
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I am mostly practicing with NP40+ which is now generally available. I originally bought them from TT-japan, and various other places, when they were pretty much back-ordered everywhere. Sometimes I practice with XSF, you can get those at lots of places. I'm not sure who has best price in US or Europe at moment. I bought my G40+ from Butterfly NA, since it is currently only place in North America selling them.
I hope to try the G40+ again tonight. |
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The Canadian Bacon
Gold Member Joined: 08/29/2015 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1323 |
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If you just need training balls ...just get the BTY G40+ easy balls.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Had another session with G40+ balls, this time on Butterfly tables.
My conclusion is that this is a really nice ball to play with (it better be for the price!) but I still had the impression that heavy topspin shots did not arc quite as much, but they were still effective. It is a pretty subtle thing, though. Not that big of a deal. I think if you are used to either XSF or NP40+, you will transition to this ball easily -- more easily than if you transition from NP40+ to XSF. Early indications are that the ball is quite durable. |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I have had about five long sessions with the G40+, and I have had lots of my clubmates try them. I have mainly been using them since mine arrived because I wanted to get as familiar with them as possible. With time now I will revise my order of preference for plastic balls to Nittaku Premium > XSF > G40+ (from best to worst). This is something of a matter of taste, but for me at least, I am sure of it.
The main reason for this is that with a bit of wear the G40+ gets even more smooth and shiny on the surface than they are when new. Once that happens, with maybe 90-120 minutes of use, the playing properties decline a great deal. You start getting very low sliding bounces, unpredictably, since the normal bounce of this ball is very high. Also the ball becomes harder to control. This does not happen when they are new, at least not as much. Everybody who has tried them at my club has said they feel very fast, more so as they get shinier on the outside. With the speed and high bounce, the game becomes distinctly less spin oriented. Some people will probably like that but I definitely don't. I haven't managed to break one yet (except for one I stomped on in anger), but it hardly matters if their wear makes them not useful for other reasons. I am going back to the Nittaku Premiums. |
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fiveplyian
Super Member Joined: 10/10/2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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Baal is spot on.
Tried G40 last week using a borrowed, worn ball. Very quick, nasty sound but within 15 minutes it was sliding through very low on pushes in a randomn fashion and mostly bouncing quite high on topspin. The key is that it was unpredictable and inconsistent. I didn't post earlier as it was one borrowed ball so I have no idea how much use makes it behave like this and whether it is normal. Disliked it immediately. I have mostly played XSF for 3 months. Generally OK in fast venues / on fast tables but recently I have had issues in slow venues ....... a number just play very undynamically on topspin in these slow venues but will suddenly fly on smashes / hard drives out of nowhere. Seem like there must be a mix of soft / hard spots. In quick venues I can stick to loop and loop-kill variations and quite like the XSF overall. Gave the Nittaku Premium 40+ a test also ....... really consistent but lower bounce than the XSF. Seemed very true and the rubber seemed to pick it up more easily with my old celluloid stroke varieties; with the XSF I have to stick to pretty solid loop-drive contact. I don't like the price but I am considering whether I can play these in matches but multiball train with celluloid training balls as the Nittaku Prem 40+ is definitely the closest to celluloid (overall cost will then start to be acceptable). More experimentation to do and have lent some Nittaku balls to my team mates for more input. |
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Ian
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14847 |
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I agree the best part of the NP40+ is how much of your celluloid game remains useful with them.
I haven't had a chance to play with the G40+ as I am taking a break for a few days but I might play briefly tomorrow to see whether what Baal says becomes more noticeable. I do know that the guy who liked XSF balls the most in my club hated them instantly.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Victor_the_cleaner
Gold Member Joined: 12/26/2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1428 |
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Well, Baal, you were right this time, i LOVE the G40 ball. Flies so straght and predictably! It has the consistant flight trajectory of NP40+ but the high bounce of the old BTY 40+.
However reading your last post is rather disapointing. I haven't had time to wear out a ball yet, but if you are right that will be a major drawback. Looking at how smooth the ball is out of the box i can already see how it is very likely to start slipping later on, especialy on old shiny tables, or tables like killersping that are slippery even brand new.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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It bothered the hell out of me. Some people may like it.
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DonnOlsen
Gold Member Joined: 11/15/2008 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 1751 |
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Hello,
Thanks for the Butterfly G40+ comments. I too bought the ball. I am training with the Easy ball; it is my view and a few others around me that the Easy ball plays the same as the G40+ so that is great news! (If others disagree with this, please let me know). This ball will hurt the heavy topspinners and benefit those that learn to drive the ball with speed. If Butterfly North America behaves as it did with the celluloid-to-plastic transition, then they will push out this G40+ to all their sponsored tournaments. The Butterfly Teams in 2 weeks is using it, and I have identified 4 other North American tournaments that have already used it. I am using it exclusively because of the above assumption and that here in the Northeast and coast U.S., with Triangle and Lily's and others being Butterfly shops that this is the major ball of the present and the future. It will best position a player for the most tournaments. Thanks,
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Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.
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Victor_the_cleaner
Gold Member Joined: 12/26/2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1428 |
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very good feedback and assessment. I agree on all your points. I played some more with the G40+ and while I still don't have a worn out ball, for me that ball is certainly the best on the market right now. Also, when i thought a little more about it, even if the ball behaves worse when worn out, that kind of holds for all other shiny worn out balls. Most of the plastic balls don't even have the durability to wear out. And in tournaments worn out balls are not an issue. So I am pretty sure you are right that this ball will dominate the important tournaments.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I think this ball and the Nittaku Premium will dominate. USATT has a sponsorship deal with Nittaku whereas Butterfly sponsors many other important events. Nittaku Premium is a little cheaper at the moment and nearly everybody likes the way it plays.
It is true also that in tournaments you will not be using balls that are worn. One thing for sure, the G40+ is vastly better than the seamed Chinese stuff we were getting all of last year. I never actually tried an Easy Ball but I believe they are also made in Germany using the same plastic and process, so I am not surprised you find them pretty much the same. |
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rickywinataa
Super Member Joined: 02/17/2012 Location: VIC,AU Status: Offline Points: 217 |
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I suspect in the future as people are used to the way how most poly ball bounce, nittaku will be criticized for not bouncing as much. But for now, it's the poly ball that plays like celluloid
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I have ordered some new DHS 40+ balls supposedly made with their new materials thanks to a post from Igorponger where he found an Ali Baba site selling them. They shipped out two days ago. I will write a review as soon as I can.
The pessimistic side of me says since their balls have been utter crap earlier, there is no reason to get too excited. The optimistic side of me says that DHS has had their backs against the wall making something better in time for the January 2016 deadline, so they have probably tried many different plastic mixtures, and these balls may be ok. Other companies have found a way. Another pessimistic thought says that the companies that have succeeded have used a very different process to make plastic balls that bounce high enough and that don't break. I think DHS has tried to adapt plastic to the methods they used for celluloid. We will see. |
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Bran
Super Member Joined: 06/18/2013 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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I like the XSF and indeed I didn't like the G40. It didn't feel as bad as the seamed poly balls, but something felt off, as if they didn't spin. After seeing TT Daily's review, it may have been the flat trajectory that made me feel this way. It wasn't mine anyway, so won't get to try again for a while. |
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asifgunz
Gold Member Joined: 09/15/2013 Location: Queens NY Status: Offline Points: 1448 |
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Is g40 . Gambler 40?
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"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
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Vince64
Gold Member Joined: 07/13/2013 Location: Kent, WA Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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asifgunz
Gold Member Joined: 09/15/2013 Location: Queens NY Status: Offline Points: 1448 |
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Oh lmao.
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"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
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Johnny Erasure
Platinum Member Joined: 07/08/2013 Location: România Status: Offline Points: 2698 |
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What is the most durable 40+ ball?
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Blade: JM ZLC
Rubbers: FH Dignics 09C BH Dignics 05 Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63937&KW=Johnny+Erasure&PID=764628&title=feedback-for-j |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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In my experience with dozens of these balls over 19 months, XSF and other seamless ITTF approved balls are most durable on average. They do break sometimes if they hit sharp edges, but in general I think they retain their playing qualities longer than celluloid.
I would say that Nittaku Premium 40+ is about the same as Nittaku celluloid. Not quite as good as XSF but I like their playing properties better (matter of taste). I think G40+ does not break but quickly becomes not very much fun to use (possibly a matter of taste, but I really dislike it after 60-90 min). My distinct impression is that they are not going to break. Chinese seamed balls have been the least durable. Now they claim to have a new material. I will find out later how they are. |
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AcudaDave
Gold Member Joined: 11/02/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1859 |
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Joola new seamless poly vs new Joola seamed poly balls. Ok just got a box of 72 new Joola seamless balls (was told they are XSF balls in disguise), and got 3 6-packs of Joola seamed poly balls. Wanted to take a short video clip, but to sum them up, the new seamed Joola balls still, and I repeat still, do not bounce very well. Maybe they have new material, but they bounce similar to the old BTY poly balls. The new Joola seamless balls bounce identical to the XSF balls. Interesting to note though, they seem to have a slightly different sound when playing. Kind of like the new BTY G40+ balls, but not as pronounced. Since Joola just got these seamless balls in I was told they won't be used at the NA Teams next weekend. They will be using the seamed poly balls. Too bad! I hope the seamless XSF balls win out though as I still like these the best.
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Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade
Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH |
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Johnny Erasure
Platinum Member Joined: 07/08/2013 Location: România Status: Offline Points: 2698 |
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Sorry for my ignorance but what balls are XSF?
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Blade: JM ZLC
Rubbers: FH Dignics 09C BH Dignics 05 Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63937&KW=Johnny+Erasure&PID=764628&title=feedback-for-j |
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igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
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Too choosy stomach will go empty.
Do not look far into, just eat it. |
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Johnny Erasure
Platinum Member Joined: 07/08/2013 Location: România Status: Offline Points: 2698 |
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I found it. Is XuShaoFa... I think.
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Blade: JM ZLC
Rubbers: FH Dignics 09C BH Dignics 05 Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63937&KW=Johnny+Erasure&PID=764628&title=feedback-for-j |
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Victor_the_cleaner
Gold Member Joined: 12/26/2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1428 |
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has anyone purchased both BULK XSF and the boxes of 3? Are they the same quality? I want to buy some XSF to test, and bulk is so much cheaper.
BUT. In my experience the BULK purchases always have higher portion of bad balls that the boxes of 3. I had nothing but great balls with the old Nittaku Premium (celluloid) but when I ordered 120 balls every forth balls was odd weight or not round. I had similar experience splitting bulks with friends of Tibhar and Joola balls. I am starting to suspect that the small packages have better quality control than the ones sold by the pound. Hoping someone can confirm the bulk XSF is good (or acceptably low number of odd balls)
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Sorry. Have not bought XSF in bulk.
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AcudaDave
Gold Member Joined: 11/02/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1859 |
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I haven't gone through all of them Victor, but will test 20 - 30 of them tonight to see if they pass the inspection test for roundness. Was disappointed the new Joola seamed poly balls still perform badly!
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Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade
Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Dave. How new were the Joola. Has
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AcudaDave
Gold Member Joined: 11/02/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1859 |
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Not sure about the expiration date on them...I'll check, but just ordered/received them this week, so I assumed they were freshly minted poly seamed balls. I really like the Joola seamless balls though, and my hopes are that if Joola gets behind them and all of their sponsored tournaments use them then they will start to be favored by players.
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Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade
Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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There will be a four letter code on the box that indicates when balls were made. The reason I am asking is supposedly the balls made by DHS got better around June this year (that is who makes the Joola seamed balls). This is because of changes in their plastic formula. Code will be XFAE for balls made after June. Maybe second letter could be G H etc (July, August, etc). I am trying to figure out if they really did manage to make a better ball.
Sometimes the code is hard to see, it is sometimes pressed into the box without ink. ITTF requires this code for approved balls. They may be freshly minted but it could also be they were made a long time ago and have sat on a shelf for a long time. I don't think balls go bad with time, but if they start crappy they don't get better. |
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