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how do you seal your blade??? |
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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Many members on this post are claiming a big difference in the "feel" of the Acoustic when sealed. tdragon told me this a while back. As a result, the last Acoustic I owned was lightly sealed instead of my world famous Triple Sealed as per Chinese Specs. It's hard to argue with the overwhelming reports about the Acoustic; yet, why is there such a big difference with this blade and not others? I can easily argue that there is almost no difference with most blades, and if there is a difference, it is often better performance due to factors I've explained on several other posts. What's the deal with the Acoustic? My first thought is . . . the flex and feel of this blade are dependent upon the sensitive top ply/fibers. Any other thoughts? And, if this is the case, what are Acoustic owners supposed to do to protect their blade? Water-based glues will destroy an unsealed blade!! And, even if the application of the glue didn't destroy the blade, the removal will!!! You need to use warm water, which will soak the top ply and you will be left with a MUSH!!!
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Hookshot
Gold Member Joined: 07/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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If sealing will affect a blade, it is affected by the speed of the blade also.
A defensive type blade with lots of vibration and soft feeling will be affected the most. A hard, fast carbon type, it will be hard to feel any difference even with 5 coats of Poly. Blades in the ALL+ to OFF- will show very little change if any with one or two coats of Poly. Sealing a blade and then testing for feel is not a reliable way to do it. If you "really" want to do a test, you need two blades the same. Seal one and compare to the other with the same rubbers. Have someone else hand you the blades. If people did the testing this way, fewer people would claim they can feel the difference. |
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peter79
Premier Member Joined: 07/05/2006 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3393 |
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No wonder I can 't really feel any difference with my 1 ply since it's OFF+ category
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Andro Wanokiwami AO Offensive 83 gr
H3 National Orange 40 deg 2.2 Baracuda Max 182 Gr |
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Rich215
Premier Member Joined: 02/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3488 |
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Since I play with a few softer feeling blades below the Off- mark, I use a thin coat of this Minwax product.
This product is a great sealer....light...thin.....easy to brush out.....dries fast. Just use in a highly ventilated area, the fumes are wicked strong!
Minwax Clear Brushing Lacquer....comes in Gloss..Semi Gloss...or Satin.
Home Depot sells for about $10 (USD) |
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Hookshot
Gold Member Joined: 07/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Thanks Rich215,
Thats one Minwax product I have not tried. |
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Rich215
Premier Member Joined: 02/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3488 |
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Hookshot....let me know what you think of it. Id be intrested to see what your findings are. |
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rokphish
Gold Member Joined: 11/27/2007 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 1924 |
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In that case I suppose you got yourself a rare edition of Acoustic which is in the All- category... |
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instagram: rokphishtt
Member of EJ Anonymous Hurricane Lover |
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charlesj
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2008 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 1072 |
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Will this work? and what sort of hairspray? well... I really hope that all the blade manufacturer will make their blades factory sealed to make things easy for us! |
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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What makes you think some mass production sealing would be better than you doing it? I'm outta here. I can't take it anymore. Hairspray? You're killin' me! I'll seal my blades and you guys can pull the top plies off yours. I'll sit back and wait for the sales frenzy!! WEoooooo!!!
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GenomicsKnight
Gold Member Joined: 05/27/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1962 |
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Calm down, Tommy. Although you mean well, but some people just have to learn on their own, even when they were told repeatedly by others.
If you fear that the sealing will ruin the feeling or change blade characteristics too much, then just a very light coat of sealant should suffice. If not a least put some to protect the logo or lettering on the blade face. |
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CEO, Single Ply Hinoki Club
TSP Dynam 10.5mm and other fine 1-ply Kiso Hinoki blades |
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peter79
Premier Member Joined: 07/05/2006 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3393 |
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Nah, My acoustic is fast, not all- category.
Even though Nittaku rate it as offensive blades, it's just like off- feel.
Acoustic before sealing has a flexible feel and unique feel just as tommy zai said.
Maybe I sealed it too thick. 2 heavy coats of water based sealer.
The unique feel disappear, it becomes stiffer and harder.
maybe sealing it with 1 thin coat of minwax would't change too much.
I'm glad that The feeling comes back to normal after removing the seal .
Luckily I don't sealed it with 2 coats of poly, other wise it'll hard to remove it off
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Andro Wanokiwami AO Offensive 83 gr
H3 National Orange 40 deg 2.2 Baracuda Max 182 Gr |
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Rich215
Premier Member Joined: 02/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3488 |
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tommy.....it depends on what glue people are using...and how often they change rubbers. Dont worry...your blade and rubber sales will not be hamperd dude. hehehehe drink a nice german beer bro!
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popperlocker
Gold Member Joined: 03/24/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1753 |
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Currently, I'm using strong hair gel. I love it, because it's extremely easy to apply/you can use your fingers, clean and voc free, dirt cheap, and leaves your blade smelling really nice.
But some hair gels smell really bad, so be careful to get a nice smelling one And Tommy is right, professional table tennis sealers will get weak in a year or so, especially if exposed to water. Hairspray and Hairgel is the same, but I like hair gel, because I can reapply some every so often, it's so easy, cheap, and clean |
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rokphish
Gold Member Joined: 11/27/2007 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 1924 |
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Hairgel? I thought that thing doesn't dry off and stays gluey all the time? Hhmmm... Perhaps if thin layer is used it dries off?
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instagram: rokphishtt
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Ranger-man
Gold Member Joined: 03/27/2008 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 987 |
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The verathane, the minwax wood sealers, or just plain transparent lacquer? Do they need to be diluted with thinner from time to time, like paint? I can get the normal wood lacquer here quite easily, will a very thin, highly diluted copat of that work? Or two veery thin highly diluted coats? I get none of the above mentioned brand names here so I need to know if the generic lacquer will work?
And there are two kinds of polyurethane varnishes, water based and non-water based, which one is better? Will these work, this brand is available here. http://www.duluxdecoratorcentre.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/DDCUK/ICIPaints/servlet/DDC_SubCategoryView?storeId=10202&catalogId=10005&langId=-1&categoryId=370 |
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Darker Speed 90 10mm: Dawei IQUL
Ahinoki Lutz Spruce Jpen: 729 SuperFX Member: 1-ply Hinoki Club Violin/Acoustic Clan The speed of a Rhino and the power of a Gazelle! |
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Hookshot
Gold Member Joined: 07/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Tommy and I do not thin the Poly made by Minwax or Verithane. It is thin as it comes. I prefer the spray can but have used the wipe on also.
The full name of what I prefer is; Minwax Quick Dry Poly-U, Clear. The Satin works exactly the same. I can't tell you about the finish you list. I have not used it. |
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Ranger-man
Gold Member Joined: 03/27/2008 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 987 |
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Thanks Hookshot, that does help a lot, I will try to see if the spray on version is available here or not. I asked about my list because it says polyurethane, so I figured its the same as minwax, just a different brand. Should I use the water based one then?
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Darker Speed 90 10mm: Dawei IQUL
Ahinoki Lutz Spruce Jpen: 729 SuperFX Member: 1-ply Hinoki Club Violin/Acoustic Clan The speed of a Rhino and the power of a Gazelle! |
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Hookshot
Gold Member Joined: 07/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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The only difference between the water based and mineral based that I have found,
The water based Poly "MIGHT" raise the grain on "Some" woods. The mineral based will not raise the grain. Even if the grain does raise, (it will just be little hairs) a quick sand with 320 paper and another thin coat will fix it. Tests on both types say they are very close in durability. Tests also say Clear Vs Satin are the same for durability. Poly sanding sealer is not as tough as the Poly varnish but still very good. (it is made to sand easier and fill grain) thus not as scratch resistant. I have used it and it is still not easy to sand. Once dry, I cannot tell the difference between Quick dry or regular. Tommyzai uses Verithane Quick Dry. I have some of his blades sealed with that and it is just like Poly. Might be the same thing with a different name. Very tuff finish. He uses the water based finish. I prefer the mineral based. The tests I referred to are by the Woodworkers Magazine. Very good refference for woodworkers. |
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Ranger-man
Gold Member Joined: 03/27/2008 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 987 |
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I think I am good now. I will experiment on some old blades that are lying around with me, took the rubbers off them and they are all clean and ready. I think I will go for the water based one, simply because it dries much faster. And I also read up on the differences between the two, not much really, like you said, except the water-based is easier to clean up and the brushes are also easier to clean.
Thanks a lot Hookshot. And everyone else, and one can't ignore the Zai-man :) |
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Darker Speed 90 10mm: Dawei IQUL
Ahinoki Lutz Spruce Jpen: 729 SuperFX Member: 1-ply Hinoki Club Violin/Acoustic Clan The speed of a Rhino and the power of a Gazelle! |
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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Ranger-man,
Thanks for the props. NOT all water-based glues are easy to clean up. Some are HORRIBLE to clean up and do not come off with water. I HIGHLY recommend YES Paste. I do not expect to ever change unless they go out of biz. |
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robjkc
Super Member Joined: 12/26/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 433 |
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I've had good luck using an oil-based sanding sealer. I've read to avoid getting the kind with wax. Before I apply it I use a 400 grit piece of sandpaper and lightly sand the face and edge of the blade to get it pretty smooth. Next, I use a piece of shipping styrofoam to seal the entire edge of the blade. I even seal the exposed edge on the handle too keep sweat from soaking in. Next I take a paper towel and dip it in the sanding sealer and run it across the face of the blade. I try not to put too much in the "hitting" zone. I then repeat the edge sealing a time or two waiting about 10 minutes for the last seal to dry. After it's all dry I'll sand again very lightly.
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Hookshot
Gold Member Joined: 07/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Hi robjkc,
Yes, ones with wax can repel other finishes or not take on a different finish. Sounds like you have a good process. Even though sanding sealer is not supposed to be hard to sand, you can't prove it by me! That stuff is pretty darned tuff also. I also seal the edge on the handle for the same reasons plus it stays cleaner. I don't seal the handle itself. Another hint; A used piece of 320 grit is about equal to a new peice of 400 grit. I use the 320 new for first sand and then grab a piece of used to finish. Only need to buy one grit that way. |
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robjkc
Super Member Joined: 12/26/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 433 |
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Hookshot, thanks for the info on the wax and sandpaper. I also do the edge on the handle to keep it clean. Problem is after I'm finished sealing it it's too nice to play with.
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Rokushi
Member Joined: 09/01/2008 Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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i used miniwax brand poly/stain varnish. actually, i just added the first coat a while ago...
people who have more experience with this, would you recommend a second coat?? or is one coat good enough? thanks in advance. |
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Hookshot
Gold Member Joined: 07/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Hi Rokushi,
Depends on what you want and the wood. One coat will make it waterproof. Two coats will start to make a shine on the surface. If it is real smooth wood with fine grain like hinoki, it will have an almost glass shine after two. Rougher wood will take more. You can try it with one coat and add more later. All you have to do is wipe the blade well with rubbing alcohol. It will remove any glue residue and not touch the Poly. If you just want to protect it from water based glues, one coat is fine. |
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Hookshot
Gold Member Joined: 07/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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There has only been ONE blade the Poly-U refused to take on. The Willpower. It has something in the wood that would not let the Poly harden.
It has worked perfectly on dozens and dozens of other kinds. |
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Rokushi
Member Joined: 09/01/2008 Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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thanks hookshot! that was very helpful. yea, i just added one coat to make it "waterproof" like you said since i'm using water-based glue. that was my only concern i guess.
some people mentioned that 2 coats may take away the feel of the blade, so i didn't wanna risk it. hehe anyway, i think it's dry by now. can't wait to add the rubbers. |
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