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What cleaners are really legal? |
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haggisv
Forum Moderator Dark Knight Joined: 06/28/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5110 |
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Posted: 03/12/2009 at 9:01pm |
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I know we've had quite a few little discussions
about certain cleaners here, but I thought I would be good to discuss
them in detail, and try and work out what we all feel is acceptable...
Firstly none of the ITTF rules mentions any cleaners specifically, so we can't claim that any particular cleaner is definitely illegal. Secondly the relevent ITTF rules are: 2.04.07 The covering material should be used as it has been authorised by the ITTF without any physical, chemical or other treatment, changing or modifying playing properties, friction, outlook, colour, structure, surface, etc. 7/15/2003 2.04.07.01 Slight deviations from continuity of surface or uniformity of colour due to accidental damage or wear may be allowed provided that they do not significantly change the characteristics of the surface. Now if we follow these litterally, NO cleaners are legal including water, as ALL of them modify the rubber in a small way. However if we look at the intent of this rule, specifically 2.04.07 which was introduced recently, it was brought in stop people from illegally modifying/treating rubbers, specifically pimpled rubber to make them more slippy and offer higher spin reversal. From this I would interpret that as long as we don't modify the surface significantly, ie. the rubber basically still plays very similarly, it should be quite legal to play with. The ITTF recently released a new document, which did recommend people to only use water for cleaning. However the context of this document was more or less how you could be sure your bat would be legal in ITTF event... Since any cleaner COULD contain some VOCs, water was recommended as this was the only way you could be sure it had no VOC content. SO if we look at the different cleaners: Water: Obviously regarded as legal even though cleaning with water make a slight modification to the characteristics Foam Cleaners: Some of these do contain low contents of VOC, but on the surface these evaporate very quickly, and pose little to no health issue. It mainly gives the rubber a good clean and restores some of the grip that the rubber had initially. I would regard these as legal. Bio Cleaners: These probably don't contain any VOC but we cannot be sure, but even if they do, on the surface these evaporate very quickly, and pose little to no health issue. It also mainly gives the rubber a good clean and restores some of the grip that the rubber had initially. I would regard these as legal. Spinmax Aqueous This product contains no VOCs (water based) as was tested and approved by the ITTF before these new rules came in. This product does seem to restore the grip on a rubber more than other cleaners, but does not appear to modify it's characteristics significantly beyond it's initial condition when it first comes out of the packet. So I would regard it as legal as well. Spinmax Original (red&blue) This product has high VOC content, but although this is obviously an health issue, the VOC are known to evaporate very quickly, and test on the enez shortly after use, passed. As this obviously has an health issue, the legality is more questionable. When used sparingly it does not modify the surface significantly either, but when overused it can turn a non-tacky rubber into a tacky one, which obviously changes the characteristics too much to make it legal. I'd say this is probably not legal. After you read what I said above, I'd really like to hear your opinion, to see if you agree with me or not... |
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tiburon74
Super Member Joined: 12/09/2008 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 191 |
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the ittf on the lattest bulletin of the water based legal stuff recomends to all players to clean our rubbers only with water, to prevent any thing wrong with the enez machine
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liXiao
Premier Member Joined: 11/27/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6145 |
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Butterfly released a new cleaner that is a foam but its ittf approved.
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haggisv
Forum Moderator Dark Knight Joined: 06/28/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5110 |
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That's right, that's what I was referring to here:
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haggisv
Forum Moderator Dark Knight Joined: 06/28/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5110 |
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AFAIK the ITTF does not approve cleaners... I suspect they just claim it abides by the latest ITTF rules regarding VOCs... |
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pongmaster
Silver Member Joined: 02/18/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 665 |
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radical
Super Member Joined: 11/22/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 248 |
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How does water change the rubber characteristic. Is it tap water that has salts and what not in it, or does distilled water also modify the rubber in some way?
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dragon kid
Premier Member Joined: 07/28/2007 Status: Offline Points: 2947 |
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Unless you are a pro, I don't think you should think about this too hard..
This is like the booster/tuners situation, even if you use spinmax on your rubber, if it has no VOC in it, they can't prove nothing (just like boosters/tuners). So everything non VOC is safe, IMO. |
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varghesep
Premier Member Joined: 09/28/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3111 |
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Joola has a Spinmax Green product. Is it the same as Spinmax Aqueous? I dont know whether it is effective as the red one - the red one could create super sticky tackiness.
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nicefrog
Platinum Member Joined: 06/12/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2398 |
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I've been using water to clean my rubbers for 20 years, nothing else is as good or as cheap or as good for your planet. That's pretty much the end of the story :). Why bugger around with foams and gas and bottles of nothing when it's only gimmick that waste resources and does nothing. A credit card for a scraper and a few drops of water will keep you looping on tacky rubbers all day long
If you really wanted to get technical water is allready in the rubber, in the air ie everywhere, so there is no way it can change the surface of the rubber |
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varghesep
Premier Member Joined: 09/28/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3111 |
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I like that . Have you ever misplaced credit card after doing that? You play with wallet in your pocket ?
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nicefrog
Platinum Member Joined: 06/12/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2398 |
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lol no I just leave the card on the floor with my car keys like everyone else, I live in a friendly place so no problems : ). You could use an old non working card if you live in a dodgy place. Or another thing I use to use for many years that was even better was an old 2 stroke motorbike reed vavle (spring steel with blunt edges) that was an awesome scraper best I ever had. Failing all that, the edge of the bench in the kitchen or even a door frame in the stadium will do :). I allways clean the rubbers between matches if not more often than that so anything with an edge on it is fair game. It works 100x better than this rubbish the pros do with rubbing your hands on the blade and blowing on it, suprised they can even play with rubbers like that :) I've tried it and it's not good
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wturber
Premier Member Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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I've been using water (reverse osmosis - moderately pure) water for over five years now. I use a microfiber cloth. This works just fine. My tacky rubbers stay tacky. The only possible negative side effect is that heavily played rubbers do seem to get s light polish after 5-6 months of use and cleaning. But even so, the rubber remains tacky over that time frame. |
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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TBS9x
Gold Member Joined: 10/24/2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 1143 |
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This is kinda stupid now ... Of course things that contain VOC should be banned according to ITTF rules but the cleaners and changing characteristics of the rubber, who knows ??? I have a sheet of neos tacky, sometimes when it's less tacky, I put 1 or 2 layers of spinmax aqueous on it, it just make it tacky like in the beginning, who knows if it changed the '' characteristics '' or not ! It's only crazy if u put few layers of spinmax to a non tacky rubber like Nimbus Sound,Tenergy, ... and turn them into tacky rubber which I've done XD.So I think actually cleaners should be legal, if it doesn't make the rubber more flexible or harder, ... I don't know who can detect the changes on the rubber, I don't think the enez machine can.
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haggisv
Forum Moderator Dark Knight Joined: 06/28/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5110 |
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Yes i tend to agree... it's very hard to even know if the cleaner has changed the characteristics, and next to impossible to detect...
Regarding some of the other comments, I agree that water does do the trick most of the time, but in some cases a cleaner is required. So my questions is, in those cases where a cleaner IS required, what do you think is legal? I've described the basics of the cleaner and their legality (in my opinion) in the first post... |
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firetack
Silver Member Joined: 10/18/2006 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 950 |
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Joola has a Spinmax Green product. Is it the same as Spinmax Aqueous? I dont know whether it is effective as the red one - the red one could create super sticky tackiness.
the latest version is spinmax ultra,which seems the same as spinmax green/aqeous and just a name change.it restores the original tack/gripiness but dosn`t go beyond that like the red heptane based version did,it is imo far better than water for maintaining tack
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nicefrog
Platinum Member Joined: 06/12/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2398 |
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I don't know when you need to clean it better I use hot water :), even soap. I've even been known to use 2000 grit wet/dry sandpaper to take the oxidised layer of rubber off tacky rubbers that are a couple of seasons old if I've got an important game comming up, that brings them back to 95% new condition.
I have no problem with any kind of cleaners chemical or not, but I just don't think they are needed when they are better ways to do it laying around :) |
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haggisv
Forum Moderator Dark Knight Joined: 06/28/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5110 |
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Yes I believe all those 3 water based spinmax versions are the same...just rebranded... It IS different to the original red version as mentioned.
yes I'm sure you're right nicefrog, there are other ways of cleaning the rubber... but there is also a risk you can damage the surface, if you're not sure what you're doing... and a cleaner is handy to carry with you if you need it and don't have other things handy... Looking at the poll result so far, I'm interested to hear why people think only water is legal? |
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wturber
Premier Member Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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I've yet to find a situation where water does not work. The reason I use a microfiber cloth is that they are known to be good at picking up oils and debris. As far as the legality, there is no such thing as an illegal or legal cleaner. But there are two ways that a cleaner could render a racket illegal. 1) It contains VoCs and and they don't completely evaporate and hence cause an ENEZ failure. 2) They contain substances that change the characteristics of the rubber top sheet. I've looked at the SpinMax website, and would conclude from their demonstrations that SpinMax is more than just a cleaner. It increases the stickiness of the surface which violates rule 2.4.7 |
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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wturber
Premier Member Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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I fail to see how it is handier to purchasing a cleaner, re-purchasing it when it runs out and making sure it is in your bag is less handy than purchasing a little spray bottle and making sure it is (filled with water) and placed in your bag. Cleaners have to be purchased over and over. Little spray bottles simply need to be filled with clean water every now an then. And you can get water just about anywhere and any time. This is the little $3 spray bottle I use. It comes complete with a little clip that makes it easier to find in my bag. It is very handy. http://www.sallybeauty.com/Clip-A-Long-Sprayer/SBS-436100,default,pd.html |
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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liXiao
Premier Member Joined: 11/27/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6145 |
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Iruiru hasnt gotten it yet buts it on butterfly.co.jp |
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haggisv
Forum Moderator Dark Knight Joined: 06/28/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5110 |
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I was referring to nicefrog's comment of using sandpaper or other chemical, which you would normally not carry with you. I agree that obviously a bottle of water is as easy to carry with you as any cleaner. Water may have done the trick for you, but I've had many circumstances where a rubber was left somewhere and not properly stored... water would not bring back it's grip.. but a cleaner could do it, and with ease... Anyway this poll is not about what's works best or is most effective, but about what you think is legal or not to use. So any more votes? |
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