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Strange Grain Pattern on Galaxy W-1

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    Posted: 02/01/2010 at 3:29pm
Check out the center ply here on my Galaxy W-1:



The center ply has the grain perpendicular to the face of the blade! WTF is happening! It's like someone cut off the end of a log and used that for a center ply haha. Also notice how the blade goes from 7 ply to 9 ply near the handle, with red colored wood. I've played with this blade some and liked it so far, lots of control.

Are there any other blades that have the center ply grain traveling in that direction? What does this do to the blade's performance?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sallom89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 3:47pm
wtf.. first time for me to see a center ply like that 0.0
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dauntless Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 4:33pm
Its balsa... pretty sure anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spitfire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 4:49pm
It's straight and they prependicular to each other
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote walleyeguy7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 5:10pm
that would make it softer i guess
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOOPMEISTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 6:11pm
I think the different plies in the handle is what gives it the wooden feel or it adds some vibration/feel to the handle.

Also notice there's 2-plys of Limba on top of the carbon. Innerforce W-1? LOL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reinecke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 6:32pm
Originally posted by LOOPMEISTER LOOPMEISTER wrote:

I think the different plies in the handle is what gives it the wooden feel or it adds some vibration/feel to the handle.Also notice there's 2-plys of Limba on top of the carbon. Innerforce W-1? LOL


That would be great if someone could compare the two, innerforce and W-1, I've never even seen an Innerforce.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 7:05pm
I've always taken it to be balsa, but fortunately not thin enough to make the blade fragile.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snappyloko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 7:39pm
that's balsa for sure. my cousin has a butterfly balsa carbo x5. it has a center balsa ply. i couldn't get a closer look at  the edge of the blade. sorry. maybe you can save then zoom it :)
 http://butterflyonline.com/images/catalog/zoom/7704ST.jpg


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reinecke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 8:41pm
cofferlait, maybe hinoki center ply?

TSP Balsa, balsa center


Balsa Carbo X5, not vertical grain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reinecke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 8:43pm
The first two are the only other blades I've found with this "vertical" grain, the balsa carbo was an example of a balsa center that isn't vertical grained
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ppmax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2010 at 3:52pm
That's a new technology called "Naturally-Generated Vertical Uniaxial Cellulosic Fibers".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reinecke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2010 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by ppmax ppmax wrote:

That's a new technology called "Naturally-Generated Vertical Uniaxial Cellulosic Fibers".


Could you post a link? I googled it but didn't find any help. Is it what is in the new inner-force blades? Butterfly also has uniaxial, but it is parallel to the blade face, still not like this. What are the main blades using this technology?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BHDoom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2010 at 7:10pm
Originally posted by Reinecke Reinecke wrote:

Originally posted by ppmax ppmax wrote:

That's a new technology called "Naturally-Generated Vertical Uniaxial Cellulosic Fibers".


Could you post a link? I googled it but didn't find any help. Is it what is in the new inner-force blades? Butterfly also has uniaxial, but it is parallel to the blade face, still not like this. What are the main blades using this technology?
i think he was being sarcastic, strange that the middle ply is balsa, i hate the feel of balsa and i used this blade for some time, i always thought it was just thick cut limba cut the other way, guess not, definitely doesnt have a balsa feel to me though
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reinecke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2010 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by BHDoom BHDoom wrote:

i think he was being sarcastic, strange that the middle ply is balsa, i hate the feel of balsa and i used this blade for some time, i always thought it was just thick cut limba cut the other way, guess not, definitely doesnt have a balsa feel to me though


I think so too

Could you compare it's speed/control to your TBS? Or any blade for that matter? Also did you think it was OFF+, OFF, OFF-?

I'm fairly new to trying different blades so I wish I had something to compare it to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BHDoom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2010 at 9:05pm
Originally posted by Reinecke Reinecke wrote:

Originally posted by BHDoom BHDoom wrote:

i think he was being sarcastic, strange that the middle ply is balsa, i hate the feel of balsa and i used this blade for some time, i always thought it was just thick cut limba cut the other way, guess not, definitely doesnt have a balsa feel to me though


I think so too

Could you compare it's speed/control to your TBS? Or any blade for that matter? Also did you think it was OFF+, OFF, OFF-?

I'm fairly new to trying different blades so I wish I had something to compare it to.
i would rate TBS as OFF and W1 as OFF-, W1 is softer and more flexible, very nice blade, i would suggest it to someone who used to use all wood and wants to make the switch the carbon without ramping it up too much, very nice blade, interesting construction, since i made the switch to TBS though i really love it, it is harder, firmer and faster than the W1 but imo has great feel still, i basically went from all wood blades to W1 to TBS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JRSDallas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2010 at 9:33pm
A vertical grain center ply is an intelligent method of achieving a stronger blade and it is exactly the what is done in a honeycomb core plate.  
 
The center ply does not contribute to the overall stiffness of the sandwich structure (i.e. the blade) nearly as much as the outer carbon layer.  Essentially you can ignore it.  It only serves to keep the carbon layers separate.  However, the carbon layer will locally collapse under the point load of a ball impact unless it is supported from below.  
 
The resistance to compression (denting) of the balsa wood with a perpendicular grain (as shown in the pictures) is much higher than the compresion strength of the same wood when the grain is parallel to the surface of the blade.   
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reinecke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2010 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by BHDoom BHDoom wrote:


i would rate TBS as OFF and W1 as OFF-, W1 is softer and more flexible, very nice blade, i would suggest it to someone who used to use all wood and wants to make the switch the carbon without ramping it up too much, very nice blade, interesting construction, since i made the switch to TBS though i really love it, it is harder, firmer and faster than the W1 but imo has great feel still, i basically went from all wood blades to W1 to TBS


Perfect! Just what I was looking for I felt good about it but just wanted a comparison, thanks a lot!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reinecke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2010 at 9:56pm
Originally posted by JRSDallas JRSDallas wrote:

A vertical grain center ply is an intelligent method of achieving a stronger blade and it is exactly the what is done in a honeycomb core plate.��

The center ply does not contribute to the overall stiffness of the sandwich structure (i.e. the blade) nearly as much as the outer carbon layer.� Essentially you can ignore it.� It only serves to keep the carbon layers separate.� However, the carbon layer will locally collapse under the point load of a ball impact unless it is supported from below.��


The resistance to compression (denting) of the balsa wood with a perpendicular grain (as shown in the pictures) is�much higher than the compresion strength of the same�wood when the grain is parallel to the surface of the blade.    



Very interesting, how did you know all that? From what you said it seems that having the carbon layers closer to the center therefore 2 layers from the outside is what gives the blade more of a wood feel. I was wondering why a carbon blade was called "The Wood King" haha.

I'm studying engineering and am taking some of my first classes on materials, I wanna blurt out something about table tennis every 5 minutes during the lecture, but I hold my tongue

edit: I actually remembered you're the guy that did the loooonnnnnggg post on materials at DTTW, thanks so much for writing that it was great for an aspiring engineer to read. Are you an engineer? What type? Are there engineering jobs in the table tennis industry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2010 at 2:14am
Originally posted by Reinecke Reinecke wrote:

Check out the center ply here on my Galaxy W-1:



The center ply has the grain perpendicular to the face of the blade! WTF is happening! It's like someone cut off the end of a log and used that for a center ply haha. Also notice how the blade goes from 7 ply to 9 ply near the handle, with red colored wood. I've played with this blade some and liked it so far, lots of control.

Are there any other blades that have the center ply grain traveling in that direction? What does this do to the blade's performance?
 
 
more stiifness= more speed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JRSDallas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2010 at 7:30am

I have a physics background and I taught myself the mechanical engineering specifics of the problem because I wanted to understand it myself.  

There might be engineering opportunities in TT but I would suspect they are few.  Engineering is a great field to pursue and it is a great foundation even if you migrate into other functions within a company or other fields of work.  Understanding how things work is more valuable to yourself and others than not having a clue is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reinecke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2010 at 7:56am
Originally posted by JRSDallas JRSDallas wrote:

I have a physics�background and I taught myself the mechanical�engineering specifics of the problem because I wanted to understand it myself.��


There might be�engineering opportunities in TT but I would suspect they are few.� Engineering is a great�field to pursue�and�it is a�great foundation even if you migrate into other functions within a company or other fields of work.� Understanding how things work is more valuable to yourself and others than�not having a clue is.



I kind of assumed the jobs would be few.

It's okay though, I'll find something to enjoy, and you're right about having the technical background. I want to be on more of the business side of engineering company, but I will still get jobs over business majors in many cases. (at least that's the plan)
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