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What is dominant in a combo (wood or rubber?)

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PLLsystem View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06/25/2010 at 1:14pm
Hi all,
We are thinking about that principle: What is dominant in a combo that is regularly a good combination? Can you estimate how much % the wood or rubber determins?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sallom89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2010 at 1:45pm
70% blade 30% rubber for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2010 at 4:10pm
Assuming I'm using a nice hard sheet of H3, then it might be 80% blade for me.  bh rubbers usually dont matter at all, as long as its the right hardness, they are all about the same.  So blade is very important.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PLLsystem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2010 at 4:38am
And what about thickness of rubbers? In my opinion MAX rubbers fade the features of wood
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2010 at 6:37am

60% rubbers 40% blade

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2010 at 8:24am
I think they are equally important, and I am not talking about %50-%50, but rather %100-%100.  Either a wrong blade (speed, control, flexibility, stiffness...), or a wrong rubber (tackiness, thickness, grip, bounce, hardness,...) will ruin the whole setup, and you won't be able to play well until you fix what is wrong.  Lets face it, we already have enough tough time playing with the right setup LOL, so anything that causes the setup to be less than %100 for you is not good.

Edited by mhnh007 - 06/29/2010 at 9:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2010 at 9:36am
+++

Who is more important - husband or wife?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2010 at 10:16am

Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

I think they are equally important, and I am not talking about %50-%50, but rather %100-%100.  Either a wrong blade (speed, control, flexibility, stiffness...), or a wrong rubber (tackiness, thickness, grip, bounce, hardness,...) will ruin the whole setup, and you won't be able to play well until you fix what is wrong.  Lets face it, we already have enough tough time playing with the right setup LOL, so anything that causes the setup to be less than %100 for you is not good.


this is the kind of thinking that i get caught up in, even though I (rationally) know that it's just the effects of marketizing mixing with OCD. without this believe, BTY couldn't sell $200 blades and Haifu wouldn't have 16 different (hardness, national, perm tuned, un tuned) versions of BW2.

however, being a "shades of gray" person, i acknowledge that there are many ways to create the same sort of "harmony" that mhnh007 describes.

for example:
against my regular playing partners, I can use my clipper with 1.8mm H3 and 1.8mm Mendo Energy.
the speed of the blade, which would normally cause unforced errors against unfamiliar spins and opponents is actually an asset here.

against folks i've never played before, one of my BT550's with pronte soft or 999 and 729 Super FX 1.5mm is a better choice.
the more forgiving blade speed and softness of the FH rubber allow a little bit more of a cushion until I get familiar with their strokes and spins.

the clipper blocks like god though. low, fast and consistent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PLLsystem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2010 at 10:25am
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

against my regular playing partners, I can use my clipper with 1.8mm H3 and 1.8mm Mendo Energy.

And what change would you get rid of more: changing your clipper to eg. bty powerspin or changing your mendo to sriver L on your clipper?

What would hurt you more? Changing of the rubber eg. simple wearing out or changing the wood?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2010 at 10:29am
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:


Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

I think they are equally important, and I am not talking about %50-%50, but rather %100-%100.  Either a wrong blade (speed, control, flexibility, stiffness...), or a wrong rubber (tackiness, thickness, grip, bounce, hardness,...) will ruin the whole setup, and you won't be able to play well until you fix what is wrong.  Lets face it, we already have enough tough time playing with the right setup LOL, so anything that causes the setup to be less than %100 for you is not good.


this is the kind of thinking that i get caught up in, even though I (rationally) know that it's just the effects of marketizing mixing with OCD. without this believe, BTY couldn't sell $200 blades and Haifu wouldn't have 16 different (hardness, national, perm tuned, un tuned) versions of BW2.

however, being a "shades of gray" person, i acknowledge that there are many ways to create the same sort of "harmony" that mhnh007 describes.

for example:
against my regular playing partners, I can use my clipper with 1.8mm H3 and 1.8mm Mendo Energy.
the speed of the blade, which would normally cause unforced errors against unfamiliar spins and opponents is actually an asset here.

against folks i've never played before, one of my BT550's with pronte soft or 999 and 729 Super FX 1.5mm is a better choice.
the more forgiving blade speed and softness of the FH rubber allow a little bit more of a cushion until I get familiar with their strokes and spins.

the clipper blocks like god though. low, fast and consistent.

I think you misunderstand me.  I play with 3 different setups in rotation myself Smile.  What I mean is once you find the correct setup that you like, any change in that setup either the blade, or the rubber will ruin up your play equally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Best99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2010 at 2:58pm
It depens on what things you are evaluating.
A blade influences on the speed of the combo, on its feeling, on its weight, on its stability and on the overall spin, too.
A rubbers determinates the spin, speed, touch and consistency of the combo.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote burakhayran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2010 at 3:02pm
%50.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 blade
%49.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 rubber
(for me)

Edited by burakhayran - 06/29/2010 at 3:03pm
TBALC+2XT052.1MM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicefrog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2010 at 11:25pm
Pick a blade that's comfy and is close to the speed you want then fine tune the throw up and down and length in and out with rubbers :). In the end they are just as important as each other
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaolinTT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/30/2010 at 12:35am
You got me thinking.
For me (CPen), I find the blade is dominant.  I don't know if other CPen players feel the same.

2/3 (67%) blade, 1/3 (33%) rubbers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/30/2010 at 1:23am
In a good, established combination, like in a good, established marriage, the most important thing is the rubber.

One should always put it in first place.


Edited by Imago - 06/30/2010 at 1:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thaidog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/30/2010 at 1:30am
Originally posted by ohhgourami ohhgourami wrote:

Assuming I'm using a nice hard sheet of H3, then it might be 80% blade for me.  bh rubbers usually dont matter at all, as long as its the right hardness, they are all about the same.  So blade is very important.


And when you say this you must mean only for inverted rubbers barring antispin right? Obviously if you put long pips on your backhand, even with the right hardness, something would be seriously wrong Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote loop+loop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/30/2010 at 1:38am
Blade: Soft but in the offensive category.
Rubbers: Chinese with hard sponges.
Control when you want, speed when you need. Won't ask for more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stavros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2010 at 12:40am
Originally posted by Sallom89 Sallom89 wrote:

70% blade 30% rubber for me.


+1.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asyraf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2010 at 2:26am
for me, 60% for blade 40% for rubber..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AllezCho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2010 at 4:23am
Originally posted by Best99 Best99 wrote:

It depens on what things you are evaluating.
A blade influences on the speed of the combo, on its feeling, on its weight, on its stability and on the overall spin, too.
A rubbers determinates the spin, speed, touch and consistency of the combo.
 
 
+1
 
That's one of the best answers I've ever read, I wholeheartedly agree!!!
 
To me, the blade is more of a preference thing and isn't that important besides stability/feeling/weight.
 
While rubbers are more generic (don't get me wrong though, they are all slightly different). They can be divided into groups such as "fast, spinny, all-around, specialty, etc." The spin/speed/touch is more important since those attributes are used most in play. Stability/feel/weight isn't that important playbility-wise until you get to a high level (although it's best to have both a blade and rubber you love).
 
So to me, rubbers are more important than the blade playability-wise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yuna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2010 at 5:40am
i think both is important cos they work in unison to give the player the ideal feel he is seeking.

if the match up is not as optimum, some strokes will be technically more difficult to execute. eg.. flicks
with adjustment, one should still be able to play alright tho not as deadly. Sleepy


Edited by yuna - 07/01/2010 at 5:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Best99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2010 at 8:49am
Originally posted by AllezCho AllezCho wrote:

Originally posted by Best99 Best99 wrote:

It depens on what things you are evaluating.
A blade influences on the speed of the combo, on its feeling, on its weight, on its stability and on the overall spin, too.
A rubbers determinates the spin, speed, touch and consistency of the combo.
 
 
+1
 
That's one of the best answers I've ever read, I wholeheartedly agree!!!
 
To me, the blade is more of a preference thing and isn't that important besides stability/feeling/weight.
 
While rubbers are more generic (don't get me wrong though, they are all slightly different). They can be divided into groups such as "fast, spinny, all-around, specialty, etc." The spin/speed/touch is more important since those attributes are used most in play. Stability/feel/weight isn't that important playbility-wise until you get to a high level (although it's best to have both a blade and rubber you love).
 
So to me, rubbers are more important than the blade playability-wise.


I'm writing a book about the theory that supports table tennis LOLLOL. I've written 7 pages about inverted rubbers... If you want so, in a few days I can post them...
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