The good forehand rubber.

High_Arc wrote: sa01 wrote: In the end we do agree on something! Btw, your initial question about the Shark II made me order BW II red sponge from ttnpp because I want to see whether Grip-S Europe and BW II red sponge are the same. I ordered black max medium and hard (37-38 and 39-40 degree). If it is the case (and I think changes are high), then one can get the same rubber for less than half the price.

if they are the same send me one so that I don't have to buy it ok?

cotdt wrote: So basically, I am reading here that Grip-S Europe is slower than tensors and Tenergy, which is a disappointment. It would require tuning to get the speed that I want, so I will stick with H3 instead if I am going to tune anyway. Tuned H3 can be extremely fast, though I prefer a mild tune. The factory-tuned NEO version is too weak though.

Edited by ejmaster - 11/20/2011 at 6:51pm

ejmaster wrote:   i do not think can need more speed than a pro player. what it is needed is a better play.

I hit faster than certain players like Timo Boll, so I like something fast and spinny.

cotdt wrote: ejmaster wrote:   i do not think can need more speed than a pro player. what it is needed is a better play.   I hit faster than certain players like Timo Boll, so I like something fast and spinny.

Whoa.

Either you are really good, or you haven't seen yourself on video.

Got video?

I'm confidant I can hit several shots harder than a lot of people just outside the top 100 too. The problem is my average ball speed and skill in controlling the ball during a game is nothing like it so I'll choose equipment that improves my ability to win rather than add a couple percent to a once in a while big shot. Using rubbers more than 2.0mm makes little sense for club players

cotdt wrote: I guess it is difficult for many people on this forum to imagine, but a lot of people who have played table tennis for 20+ years hit faster than Timo Boll. Doesn't mean better, but faster-hitting, yes. It's not that hard or uncommon. Timo uses compact strokes and a full-sized adult using full-arm motion can do it. What's more, Timo usually hits the ball after the rise, giving even more time between shots.

I have no doubt that tuned H3 can be made much faster than Tenergy05 :)

But how much of your opinion stems from the camera angle? Almost all of the European forehands appear slow when shot in that standard ITTF facing the table overhead angle. The reason I made the show me the video comment was to try and get you to film from the same angle so we can verify your claims :)

I think we agree that the CNT are trained to produce much quicker balls, but outside of their seemingly 100 hour a week training, I don't see many European players even in the top 100 that loop noticeably faster than Timo. Don't get me wrong; every once in a while I see a European who seems to have much bigger forehand that normal (Quentin Robinot, for example), but these players are the exception, rather than the norm...

You keep saying faster hitting, and then go on to describe Timo's loop stroke.

So are you saying that you have a loop that is faster than timo boll's attacking loops or just that your smashes are faster than his loops? Or are you just comparing your smashes to his?

And it's important to note that taking a ball earlier doesn't necessarily make the ball faster, it shortens the time between your opponents stroke and the next ball he receives. This is quickness not ball speed. So while a ball looped off the bounce has the potential to arrive earlier than a ball looped at top of bounce, it doesn't necessarily mean the ball was traveling faster.

Before I see these top players live, I thought they weren't so fast and their drives not so strong. Video really tricks us..

Seeing them alive is another story..