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Zhuang Ze Dong Short Pips Two Wing Attack

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    Posted: 12/26/2012 at 9:46pm
The late Zhuang Ze Dong (1940-2013).  Treasure this gem. Wish there were more players of this style at the club. Nothing exposes all the weaknesses of one's game like playing against a short pips opponent.




Edited by racquetsforsale - 02/11/2013 at 3:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DHSriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/26/2012 at 11:39pm
Wow. Never seen Zhuang Ze Dong the legend play. Great video.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2012 at 11:18am
Pleasure to watch. If some kind person could do an English voice over, or perhaps some notes on the main points of what he says it would be brilliant, and maybe you could put Zhuang's name in the title of the thread
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2012 at 1:05pm
just watched the whole thing right through. His backhand is incredible. likewise his service returns. And yet everything he does is so simple.At the start there is quite a bit of basic counterhitting which may seem a bit low key by todays standards.
But if you have the patience, you will be rewarded by Flips that are out of this world and a unique incredible backhand snap kill and some insight into why he was best in world in the 60's.
I would love to know exactly what he is saying: - I get the impression he is recommending short strokes close to the table over long strokes from the back of the court.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2012 at 1:29pm
Where I live there is a 2250 version of that kind of player and he is my worst nightmare.  I have only beaten him once in 15 years of trying -- maybe 60 matches in that time.  He makes me feel like I am playing on ice skates.  What drives me nuts is he can attack just as well and with a lot of power from his backhand side, using that same old-fashioned penhold stroke, not the modern reverse penhold BH.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2012 at 3:04pm
What an amazing video. 
I always hated playing SP PHers. I was never certain where the ball was going so I was always off balance. Winning was more a case of forcing them into making mistakes rather than playing grand strokes.
Questions, was he a SP player? In the modern section was he using SP? I couldn't tell.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2012 at 6:25pm
Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

What an amazing video. 
I always hated playing SP PHers. I was never certain where the ball was going so I was always off balance. Winning was more a case of forcing them into making mistakes rather than playing grand strokes.
Questions, was he a SP player? In the modern section was he using SP? I couldn't tell.

LOL +1

Not only that, you can't seem to blast the ball past them coz they have a impenetrable defense, and besides that consistent looping seems to land you in a worse spot coz they vary their blocks so much (angled blocks, short blocks and hard blocks all with essentially the same stroke) and hit all the weaker balls to places that you least expect. Also, they seem to be able to flip every single short ball regardless of the spin, again to the places you least expect. 

I agree that the key strategy to winning is spin variation to force them to make mistakes, and a more passive play that encourages them to attack hard-to-attack balls which forces more mistakes out of them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2012 at 6:35pm
@tinykin
yes he was, and is the definitive sp player of all time.

his forehand flip is doing the same thing as the modern chiquita backhand except of course the racket head rotates anti-clockwise.
His backhand snap kill is just devastating
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2012 at 7:01pm
The manufacturers must be glad to see the demise of this style. Imagine; only 1x cheap long lasting rubber per blade? No need for an EJ.Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2012 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

The manufacturers must be glad to see the demise of this style. Imagine; only 1x cheap long lasting rubber per blade? No need for an EJ.Smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2012 at 1:36am
 Later on Mitsuru Kohno, Kim Wan and recently Toshio Tasaki brang Zhuang's style to new heights.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2012 at 5:47pm
mitsuru kohno was a fine world champ and one of my favourite players, but no way is he or tasaki on the same planet as Zhuang. IMO Zhuang is definitely the prime genius of pre 80's tt. He is a very special talent which deserves recognition. Especially I found it worth while to study his coaching seminar. watching him patiently demonstrating his service returns and backhand fast attack is a real privilege. I hope a kind chinese person can translate the gist of his remarks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2012 at 5:57pm
Zhuang was great no doubt about that. But Mitsuru Kono's style was of much higher quality. From footwork to stroke technique Kono stands well above. I think none has reached the standards set by Kono in the 1977 World Championships.


Edited by ChichoFicho - 12/28/2012 at 5:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2012 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by chichoficho chichoficho wrote:


Zhuang was great no doubt about that. But Mitsuru Kono's style was of much higher quality. From footwork to stroke technique Kono stands well above. I think none has reached the standards set by Kono in the 1977 World Championships.


An interesting opinion. I saw kohnos world champ win, I even won money on it!!
I know Kohno beat Zhuang at least once, but it was after the cultural revolution when Zhuang was not quite the same force
I think of Kohno as perhaps being the most complete trad ph hitter, but Zhuang having perhaps more the spark of genius in his play.
both wonderful players
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2013 at 4:16pm
Could the moderators consider making this thread a sticky in tribute to a great triple champion and maybe change thread title to something respectful
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2013 at 12:17am
Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

The manufacturers must be glad to see the demise of this style. Imagine; only 1x cheap long lasting rubber per blade? No need for an EJ.Smile

because adham wasnt born yet..btw what pips was zhuang using?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2013 at 10:31am
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:


Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

The manufacturers must be glad to see the demise of this style. Imagine; only 1x cheap long lasting rubber per blade? No need for an EJ.Smile

because adham wasnt born yet..btw what pips was zhuang using?

I heard it was 651 but that rubber is no longer made in the same way
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loop40mm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2013 at 11:27am

Zhuang Zedong passed away on Sunday, 2/10/2013.  (Chinese New Year)

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/pingpong-diplomacy-figure-zhuang-zedong-163959924--spt.html

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loop40mm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2013 at 1:08pm

This is a long video.  I wrote notes as I watched it.  I am not able to translate every statement.  I just highlight them. Some statements are repeated for every technique.  I hope you have some fundamental understanding of the strokes so some basic detail are left out.  Hopefully my notes will shed some light on something you never knew.

 

There are too many to translate and I have missed many.  Sorry.

 

Zhuang Ze Dong was the champion of the 26th, 27th and 28th world championship, and year 64, 65 and 66 national champion. 

 

He used the close-to-the table two-wing attack.  He used the wrist power and forearm power.  His style was effective against then Japanese one-wing loop attack.

 

Use of wrist to generate power

-         snap of forearm

-         use of fingers

 

3rd ball attack

-         use of backhand

 

  1. fingers, front of wrist – strength of index fingers, change of fingers and thumb placement
  2. increase speed, origin of energy, less time for opponent to react
  3. (need help on this one) something about direction of paddle
  4. backhand attack

 

forearm, increase speed to hit

 

Stance

I don’t only stand in same position

            - on far left if I use FH

            - towards middle if I use BH

 

I change to wrapping index finger so I can use BH

 

Close-to-table

Mostly forearm stroke, quick strokes with short arm stroke

 

Mid distance

Use entire arm instead of just forearm

 

Step around stroke

Use of body rotation

 

Kill

See demo of his kill shot (my note: he put his whole body into it.)

 

Forehand loop

            Close-to-table

                        Speed of loop

 

            Heavy underspin

                        Paddle more open

 

            Light underspin

                        Paddle more vertical

 

Active blocks

            Paddle higher than ball

            Control angle

 

Chiquita flick

            Right foot forward

            Lift ball and brush

 

            Increase speed

            Short stroke to return to neutral faster

 

Backhand

            Backhand block to attack

                        Backhand block

                        Then backhand block foreward

                        Then backhand punch attack

            Use of index and middle finger

            Power comes from wrist with control of the forearm stroke

            Paddle bends backward and then forward

 

Top of table backhand

            Forearm stroke

            Tip of paddle

 

Backhand against underspin

 

Backhand kill

            Right foot forward

            Left shoulder back

 

Backhand hit

            Use of punch

            Close to table, small stroke

            Away from table, long stroke

 

Active block

            Steady the paddle

 

Against loop to backhand

            Paddle above ball

 

Push

            Also side spin

 

Backhand attack followed by forehand attack

 

Backhand, forehand step around, far forehand attack

            Use cross over footwork (my note: use small left foot step before cross over step)

 

Serve

 

Return serve

 

Video quit on me. I stop.

           

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote simon_xuan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2013 at 1:34pm
Condolense to a great lengend who just passed away.
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