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Variance in Hardness and Thickness of Sponge

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collins.latag View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09/21/2013 at 6:17am

I see threads about dwell time and such, but never understood how the thickness and hardness of sponge makes a difference in ones game? Can someone who likes testing rubbers tell us all how 1# thickness of sponge affects play for Choppers, Loopers, Blockers & Hitters & #2 hardness of sponge affects play for Choppers, Loopers, Blockers & Hitters?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/21/2013 at 1:26pm
My coach used to say:
-- Don't seek for an "ideal rubber" left and right about. This may take all your lifetime. The Sriver is the ready answer for everybody.
Need defensive rubber? --Take Sriver 1.3
Have got a liking for playing hard loops? --Take sriver 2.1

So is MarkV. Great rubber for all styles.. Just get a sponge thickness to fit your playing fashion best.

Of the chinese rubber brands, Friendship-729 would belong to the allroung rubber's famely as well. You can get the rubber in many different thicknesses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/21/2013 at 1:36pm
good advice
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote collins.latag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/21/2013 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

My coach used to say:
-- Don't seek for an "ideal rubber" left and right about. This may take all your lifetime. The Sriver is the ready answer for everybody.
Need defensive rubber? --Take Sriver 1.3
Have got a liking for playing hard loops? --Take sriver 2.1

So is MarkV. Great rubber for all styles.. Just get a sponge thickness to fit your playing fashion best.

Of the chinese rubber brands, Friendship-729 would belong to the allroung rubber's famely as well. You can get the rubber in many different thicknesses.
 
Actually i'm not looking for the perfect rubber, I just want to understand how the thickness and hardness of a rubber's sponge would affect ones play... Does thinner sponges provide better control or vise-versa? Does the hardness of a rubber makes spins spin fast or does it only help with flat drives. I really just want to understand the concept of choosing sponge thickness and hardness without actually having to go through rubbers and experiencing it for myself. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seguso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2013 at 8:50am
I am a looper, here is my experience with loops.

1) thickness:

if I do the same loop with max and 2.0, it will bounce longer with max. (some people deny that, but in my experience it is so). 

(the difference in spin is negligible)

this is true keeping the shot equal. But with 2.0 you can make shots that you cannot do with max, because they would go long. For example, you can loop at the table with a lot of power. And this way, you will get a shot that is spinny and fast and short, and which you would not be able to get with max. For example, imagine a defender who gives you a short flat ball. With 2.0 you might be able to kill it, with max you might not. 


Now, the same holds for push. The push goes longer with max, and for this reason you cannot always make it spin as much as you'd like. 

---

2) hardness: 

hardness plays a major role in determining spin and arc. 

2.1) If, for a given loop with given power, your rubber is too soft, it will bottom out, and you will get poor spin and poor arc. Example: power loop or counterloop with vega europe. 

2.2) If, OTOH, the rubber is too hard, the ball will not sink completely, and again you will get poor spin and poor arc. Example: controlled loop with Hurricane 3 against passive block.

So, you have to pick the hardness such that your ball will sink completely, but not more, at your preferred power. Unfortunately, if you pick it hard, it will sink completely on counterloops but not on opening loops; and if you pick it medium, it will sink completely on opening loops but bottom out on power loops. So it's always a compromise. You will always get sub-optimal spin in some situation.


Edited by seguso - 09/27/2013 at 10:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2013 at 10:28am
Originally posted by seguso seguso wrote:

I am a looper, here is my experience with loops.

1) thickness:

if I do the same loop with max and 2.0, it will bounce longer with max. (some people deny that, but in my experience it is so). 

(the difference in spin is negligible)

this is true keeping the shot equal. But with 2.0 you can make shots that you cannot do with max, because they would go long. For example, you can loop at the table with a lot of power. And this way, you will get a shot that is spinny and fast and short, and which you would not be able to get with max. For example, imagine a defender who gives you a short flat ball. With 2.0 you might be able to kill it, with max you might not. 


Now, the same holds for push. The push goes longer with max, and for this reason you cannot always make it spin as much as you'd like. 

---

2) hardness: 

hardness plays a major role in determining spin and arc. 

2.1) If, for a given loop with given power, you rubber is too soft, it will bottom out, and you will get poor spin and poor arc. Example: power loop or counterloop with vega europe. 

2.2) If, OTOH, the rubber is too hard, the ball will not sink completely, and again you will get poor spin and poor arc. Example: controlled loop with Hurricane 3 against passive block.

So, you have to pick the hardness such that your ball will sink completely, but not more, at your preferred power. Unfortunately, if you pick it hard, it will sink completely on counterloops but not on opening loops; and if you pick it medium, it will sink completely on opening loops but bottom out on power loops. So it's always a compromise. You will always get sub-optimal spin in some situation.
 
Great post - agree on the 2.0mm vs Max.  The bottom out effect is a bit overhyped, IMO, but mileage may vary on that one.  I think on really hard shots, the really problem is that soft sponge tends to be harder to control., but I don't think this is really about bottoming out.  But I can always be wrong as I haven't worked it all out.  Also, harder rubbers tend to be very tacky/grippy, so controlled looping (because of the topsheet) is not as hard as you make out. 
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