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Forehand Flick |
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michael4ster 
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Joined: 02/19/2012 Status: Offline Points: 125 |
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 Topic: Forehand FlickPosted: 03/13/2014 at 11:31am |
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The forehank flick return for a serve with low or no spin is not that difficult, but do most people use the flick if it is heavy backspin on the serve?
Thanks,
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suds79
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Joined: 08/20/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 878 |
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Posted: 03/13/2014 at 12:36pm |
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It's something that I'm continuing to work with so perhaps there are others to can give better insight but based off your question my immediate reaction is to say it depends on how low the serve is and if you get there in time. If those factors are not to my liking, I'll generally push.
Obviously if the lower the serve is, the harder, or less room for error, you will have on the return. That much is obvious. But I also think it depends on if you get there in time. If I were to try to forehand flick a short, low backspin ball, I would probably be scooping it slightly with an open face. The heavier I think the backspin is, the more open & under the ball I have to get my blade there in time. Can't be late or it's going into the net. I like to watch this from time to time as a refresher course when practicing forehand flicks... Unfortunately I need this because i don't get to practice it a lot. Robot's head launching point is too high and it's hard to emulate a low, realistic bouncing serve. It's best to practice with this your buddy IMO. Unfortunately, I only play once a week at club. Hope this helps. Edited by suds79 - 03/13/2014 at 1:39pm |
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slevin
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Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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Posted: 03/13/2014 at 12:45pm |
IMO, the spin axis matters. So, for example, consider a right-handed server delivering a spinny, short side-back pendulum serve to a right handed receiver's FH. The axis of spin won't be parallel to the table plane but shall be higher on the RH side as compared to the LH side (receiver's point of view). Such a ball is easier to flick using FH despite the backspin as compared to a reverse pendulum side-back serve (in which case you'd have to try flick on the inside (LH side) to the server's BH rather than the outside (RH side) to the server's FH. Some serves, even though their spin axis is parallel to table plane, it is not parallel to the line of the net (or back table edge). In this case, the receiver should try to flip at the axis end that is closer to him / her. Other tips I find useful: 1. Align racket height so that desired contact point on bat is at height where contact with incoming ball shall take place. Then, as ball gets closer, dip racket slightly from that height so stroke does go slightly upward. 2. Don't hit when ball is too close - ball should be slightly greater than a palm's length away when hitting action starts. Hit at peak of ball trajectory or if it has strong backspin, just after peak (but with more upward motion in this case).
Edited by slevin - 03/13/2014 at 12:53pm |
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assiduous
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Joined: 05/01/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2521 |
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Posted: 03/13/2014 at 2:42pm |
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i liked that video. Thanks!
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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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michael4ster
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Joined: 02/19/2012 Status: Offline Points: 125 |
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Posted: 03/13/2014 at 8:07pm |
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sooo, basically that video was awesome. sadly with this video the coach basically just said i was less than a beginner :( lol but i really did appreciate the teaching in this basic instructions.
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pathfinderpro
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Joined: 04/04/2010 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Posted: 03/14/2014 at 4:50am |
Sorry it wasn't said to make anyone feel sad. Jim said it was a beginners/basic video because we've been criticised in the past by people for teaching the basics when the viewer has felt they are far beyond that. This time Jim thought he'd make it clear up front who the video was aimed at. Andrew Rushton (Ex England international) took a coaching session for us last year. The video we made of that is intended for more advanced players. Thanks for the feedback. Edited by pathfinderpro - 03/14/2014 at 4:53am |
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slevin
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Posted: 03/14/2014 at 8:22am |
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Fang Bo has very good FH flips |
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stiltt
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Posted: 03/14/2014 at 9:24am |
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Short low serves are easier to flick when backspin is on the ball. The reason is the receiver just has to lift the ball up and make it clear the net before the spin adds up to gravity to make the ball land.
With no spin those short low serves are far more difficult to flick because only gravity helps so the success window is narrower. |
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michael4ster
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Posted: 03/14/2014 at 10:01am |
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Really good info, i loved the videos.
Thanks,
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hookumsnivy
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Posted: 03/14/2014 at 10:09am |
+1
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assiduous
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Posted: 03/14/2014 at 10:34am |
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Definitely a Flick and ZJK banana opening loop are completely different things and its annoying when people confuse them. ZJK has the best banana opening, but he's not that much into flicking. Ma Long is the best FH flicker in the world by a safe margin, but he can't do the ZJK BH very well.
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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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NextLevel
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Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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Posted: 03/14/2014 at 10:48am |
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I think the whole CNT are Banana Flick experts with the possible exception of Chen Qi. Some just do it better than others (obviously, WH, ZJK and FZD are ahead of the others, but not by as much as some people think).
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Carryboy
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Posted: 03/14/2014 at 12:31pm |
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I am desperately working on this shot. It can open up a world of possibilities to the player that can master it. You have to be able to read spin though and be ready to make adjustments very quickly.
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Spin Master Carbo Power (Stefan Elsner Custom)
Donic Acuda S1 Max Donic Acuda P1 Blue Max |
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assiduous
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Posted: 03/14/2014 at 1:11pm |
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Me too. I am really good in practice and im OK vs a 1500 player, but vs good players i'm always late or misread the spin a little..
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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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stiltt
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Posted: 03/14/2014 at 8:08pm |
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I noticed a trend though: people between 1600 and 2k serve fast and long more often to get into a rally so the flick and banana shots are less useful v. them; and of course much harder to execute v. People over 2k serving short and low.
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NextLevel
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Posted: 03/14/2014 at 8:43pm |
Everyone serves long more than they used to - it all depends on how much you fear the opponent's attack. The spin people get off long serve attacks is not as vicious as it was in the 38mm ball era and people are realizing that and letting people open and then block/counter. So develop your attack off long serves before/as you develop your flick.
Edited by NextLevel - 03/14/2014 at 8:44pm |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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BRS
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Posted: 03/15/2014 at 9:09am |
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I have two stupid question re the Andrew Rushton video, so gentle answers only please LOL.
How to read no-spin v spin on the short serve, early enough to get in and flick it? You have to step in earlier to flick than to push (push long at least). Is he meaning to read the spin off the ball itself? That recognition part seemed to be just assumed, but if you can't do that you can't make a decent receive anyway. Speaking for myself at least. He says go wide FH or to the BH with the flick. Is there some reason a return to the middle/elbow is not good in this situation? Is it too close a distance for when you need time to get back from over the table? At my level I don't play that many people who can vary no spin to heavy backspin short, but when I do I eat a lot of 3rd ball smashes and lift a lot of receives off the end, depending on whether I choose to lose the point aggressively or defensively. |
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NextLevel
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Posted: 03/15/2014 at 11:28am |
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BRS, there is no answer that will get you there. He does (Rushton) teCh the serves and how he disguises his. Start there.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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chu_bun
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Posted: 03/16/2014 at 12:11am |
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My problem is not having enough speed and spin on the FH flick. Unlike the BH flick, the FH flick put you in a pretty awkward position. A weak FH flick as shown in the first video will certainly get punished when used against a decent two wing looper and you are not in a good position to counter hit.
Even at the pro level, when the serve goes to the the far FH side, BH flick is used far more often than FH flick. |
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Clipper Wood, Sanwei Gears FH, Sanwei T88-I BH.
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michael4ster wrote: