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Reinforcing and stretching muscles

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Abaijon View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03/25/2014 at 7:18am
Hi all,
I´m already over 40 and I´m starting to feel the stress of practice on my muscles, specially lower back and legs.
Where can I find some hints and tips on reinforcing and stretching those muscles? Should I work on other support muscles as well?
Any help is appreciated.

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suds79 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote suds79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2014 at 9:14am
I'm 35 and certainly more injury prone than I was in my 20s. One thing I have to focus on (still need to be better at this) is stretching before playing. Warming up the body and muscles. I really think it helps me.

I would think stretching, particularly stretches for the back & legs would help you. That's for the injury factor. (look for stretching exercises on youtube)

I've also come to just expect some soreness afterwards or the next day. It's a case of being old :P. But then it fades away. Brad Gilbert in his book Winning Ugly said he always kept some Bengay muscle rub type of product in his bag as he got later into his career to help with aches & pains. It's normal to an extent.

If you're looking to improve your performance and strengthening your muscles, I'm a firm believer in exercising your core. Particularly for table tennis. So many good code workout videos on youtube. Everything is on youtube).

I like this one. It's short and tough. I still have never gotten all the way through it but I think that's a good thing. :)  Hope you find some good answers.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2014 at 12:02pm
I've been taking a yoga class twice a week for 12 years and have been injury free since then.  I'm a lot older than you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote V-Griper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2014 at 12:19pm
Warm up is absolutely essential. No matter how tempted you are to just get on the table and start hitting do not do it. A light jog for 10-15 minutes with different skipping movements works well. rope skipping works really well as warm up to. I also loosen up my shoulders, hips, torso, arms and wrists. Then stretch everything. Only then do I get on the table. I also think it's important to do a cool down walk with a stretch after.  Some weight training once or twice a week, mainly squats and core in order to maintain muscle mass. Once a week for upper body. Running/jogging  2-3 times a week for cardio. Can substitute rope skip session for a jog/run for variety. If you want to save time on the runs and can push your self do interval training.

I usually warm up for 30 min prior to play or training. I also need a good 15 mins on the table to get relaxed and tuned in. I usually do X and H for table warm up. 

I know that sounds like allot but I usually get to the club an hour early anyway and I usually play/train for at least 6 hrs not including warm up and cool down. I can only play/train twice a week now due to schedule limitations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote collins.latag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2014 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by suds79 suds79 wrote:

I'm 35 and certainly more injury prone than I was in my 20s. One thing I have to focus on (still need to be better at this) is stretching before playing. Warming up the body and muscles. I really think it helps me.

I would think stretching, particularly stretches for the back & legs would help you. That's for the injury factor. (look for stretching exercises on youtube)

I've also come to just expect some soreness afterwards or the next day. It's a case of being old :P. But then it fades away. Brad Gilbert in his book Winning Ugly said he always kept some Bengay muscle rub type of product in his bag as he got later into his career to help with aches & pains. It's normal to an extent.

If you're looking to improve your performance and strengthening your muscles, I'm a firm believer in exercising your core. Particularly for table tennis. So many good code workout videos on youtube. Everything is on youtube).

I like this one. It's short and tough. I still have never gotten all the way through it but I think that's a good thing. :)  Hope you find some good answers.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abaijon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/26/2014 at 2:20pm
I tried the 20 minutes killer workout video. Had to stop after 10 minutes. I´m sooooo old Dead
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suds79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/26/2014 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by Abaijon Abaijon wrote:

I tried the 20 minutes killer workout video. Had to stop after 10 minutes. I´m sooooo old Dead

Yeah it's hard. That's for sure. Just keep at it. It'll be good for yourself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/26/2014 at 3:07pm
Actually none of this is as clear as one would like and the conventional wisdom may not be correct---as is often the case in sports medicine, where sadly a lot of ideas are not evidence-based.

In fact, there are at least a few recent studies suggest that the best thing is to warm up slowly and carefully in the sport you play without doing rigorous stretching before you play.  A few studies have found that rigorous stretching right before you play can actually lead to increased injuries (surprisingly given the advice that everyone has received for years) or at the least can reduce performance.  A lot depends on what is meant by "rigorous stretching".

Most people say that stretching is still crucial, but many people who work in the field now say that you should work on increasing flexibility on the days when you don't play your sport.  Bear in mind that it is difficult to stretch a muscle that is not warmed up.

One older review article on this you can get for free is entitled:  The Impact of Stretching on Sports Injury Risk:  A Systematic Review of the Literature, by Steven Thacker et al. in Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise Vol. 36,  pp. 371–378. (That is the official journal of the American Academy of Sports Medicine).  This article is a bit old but you can download it easily.  They conclude that it is hard to say anything conclusive.  Things have not changed much in the intervening decade, unfortunately.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/26/2014 at 3:15pm
It is nice to have full access to a major medical library.  I have cut and pasted the abstract of a more recent article which outlines some of the issues and why things are not yet resolved:

Int J Sports Physiol Perform. 2007 Jun;2(2):212-6.

The use of static stretching in warm-up for training and competition.

Static stretching (SS) is widely used in warm-ups before training and competition. A growing amount of research, however, has demonstrated that SS can impair muscle performance, leading to a reevaluation of optimal warm-up protocols. This commentary discusses many of the methodological issues that can influence conclusions about the acute effects of SS on performance. One difficulty in interpreting the literature is the lack of control or communication about the volume and intensity of the various stretching treatments used. Another major issue is the failure of many researchers to evaluate SS as it is used in practice, particularly the interaction with the other general and sport-specific components of the warm-up. Acute warm-up effects on performance should be considered in conjunction with potential effects on injury prevention. Future directions in research include optimizing general and sport-specific warm-ups, time course of physiological and performance effects, and individualization of warm-ups according to fitness and skill level.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suds79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/26/2014 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Most people say that stretching is still crucial, but many people who work in the field now say that you should work on increasing flexibility on the days when you don't play your sport.  Bear in mind that it is difficult to stretch a muscle that is not warmed up.

That makes a lot of sense. Furthermore, from a practical standpoint, I think this would be easy to implement. I've got a lot of time when I'm not playing TT that I could use to work on my flexibility vs the 10 minutes I do before playing.

When you get to club, you tend to be anxious to want to jump right in thus cutting into your stretching time... At least I do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/26/2014 at 3:42pm
I thought that the consensus was dynamic stretching on off-days and before the game and static stretching after...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/26/2014 at 11:08pm
Slevin, the impression that I get from searching the sports medicine literature on this is that effects of stretching on injuries seen in the handful of well designed studies are relatively small (some say it reduces injuries, a handful say it increases them) and one of the few consistent results is that dynamic stretching just before playing reduces performance.  In spite of that, I usually stretch just a little before playing but more out of habit than anything else.  You can see some of that in the articles I cited but there are several others like them.

Also, don't confuse warm-up with stretch.  You absolutely have to get your activities started gradually, so the kinds of warm ups Vgriper described fit that bill nicely.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/27/2014 at 3:50am
I take a yoga class right before my good club night.  It's more of a warm up that a stretch.  I always thought that you warmed up before playing and stretch afterwards.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2014 at 1:19pm
I think Baal has hit it pretty much on the head.  Focus on warming up to prevent injuries.  That generally means that you've at least broken a sweat (assuming normal room temps) . If you are going to stretch, only do so after you are warmed up.

As for getting older, the main thing I'd suggest is to allow sufficient recovery time between heavy exercise sessions.  The general rule is that you can still do high intensity exercise.  But you need to allow for more recovery time.  With that in mind, as you get older it probably pays extra dividends to make sure you use good recovery nutrition and that you get good sleep following high intensity exercise.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2014 at 1:59pm
One other thing that I notice with age is that it is good to do a wider variety of activities and no single one to excess, which sucks for me since TT is about the only thing I like.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2014 at 8:00pm
Jay.  What do you recommend for recovery nutrition?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2014 at 10:34pm
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

Jay.  What do you recommend for recovery nutrition?


Chocolate milk or chocolate milk with some whey protein added.   Inexpensive, effective, readily available, and it tastes good.  I'm lactose intolerant (probably my Italian heritage at work) so I buy lactose reduced milk.  I bring it to the club in a stainless steel thermos and drink it on the way home.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2014 at 10:36pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

One other thing that I notice with age is that it is good to do a wider variety of activities and no single one to excess, which sucks for me since TT is about the only thing I like.


I dunno.  When I'm not busy at work I'll play for up to six hours on a Saturday.  Some of that is waiting for table time between matches, but usually a good hour and a half is pure drilling.  That said, I won't do anything strenuous the following day and almost never play TT on Sunday after such a strenuous workout.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote figgie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/13/2014 at 6:15pm
well

I am not only a ping pong player.. now. I lift weights.

The following is what I lift clean (ie no belts, no gloves, no assists). and by lift I mean 3 sets of 5 reps. I am not talking about 1 max rep.

Deadlifts.........315#
Squats............275#
Bench Press.......170#
Over Head Press...120#
Tbar laying row...135#

now some back drop as I know it will come.

I am 39 going on 40. Blew my back out (for all you physiology folks, L2,L3,L4,S1,S2 compression) back in 2002. Promised myself never again.
I am weighing 212 which is about 27 lbs heavier than I was at 185. With that said, I have never felt better in my entire life to include when I was 18-22 (military years). No pains, no squeeks. I am quicker, have more explosiveness and overall leaner than back then. The muscles do NOT hinder table tennis. quite the contrary.

I also jog, sled pulls. etc. gym 3x week (M,W,F). TT 2x week (T,Th). Then I help coach on sunday. :)

That is me though so take it with a grain of salt. I enjoy lifting. Now I am not getting monsterous. I am getting bigger but that was expected. With the fitness, I am moving a hell of a lot better. During training when a tournament is not near, I have a 40 lb weighted vest on me.



Edited by figgie - 05/13/2014 at 6:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V-Griper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/13/2014 at 6:59pm
Just wanted to comment on stretching. I always stretch after warm up but not for injury prevention. I mainly do it to feel relaxed and loose. Also most of my stretching is PNF then static to relax.
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