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Looping a no/little spin ball

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    Posted: 04/15/2014 at 1:46pm
All,

I have been struggling to loop balls that are returned with no-or-little spin and am wondering what sorts of adjustments should be made given different "types" of rubber.

Given an aggressive forehand loop stroke as an example, what changes should be made to properly attack a no-spin ball?  Whether this gets in to any/all of the following sorts of adjustments:
  • timing of ball contact (top of bounce, after top, etc...)
  • blade angle
  • amount of wrist snap compared to spinny ball
  • path of blade/arm compared to spinny ball (lift more, flatter, etc...)
  • (whatever else I am missing)

And are these changes any different between a more traditional rubber (say Mark V) versus something like Tenergy?

Thanks in advance!
(Frustrated Angry)

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gronkus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gronkus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2014 at 1:48pm
Forgot to mention, what happens all too frequently is that the ball seems to either die (not even make it to the net), or fly off the end of the table with a lack of topspin.

I am used to playing those with spinnier rubbers.  But we have a table where I work and play against those who use older "junk" paddles and it is extremely frustrating to play against.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2014 at 2:30pm
Couple ways to go about it.
 
Hit ball while it is higher with a more open blade and foward stroke/more solid contact.
 
Let it drop some and do a small lifting as part of stroke with a little more grazing than the above situation.
 
Another scenario with no-spin...
 
Let's say you get a slow speed no-spin ball long to your FH. One way to safely handle it is to spin it up with a 1/2 power stroke semi-lifting stroke to produce a heavy topspin with the goal of landing that ball deep near endline. Someitmes that will finish the point with a block out. Sometimes that will give you a block with an easy power finish. Objective is to reduce power to produce a heavy ball dep that will trouble opponet and get you a better chance to end the point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gronkus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2014 at 2:33pm
If I understand correctly, opt for a safer shot by reducing the power somewhat and then plan for the next shot assuming it is returned.  And maybe hit it top of bounce or slightly afterwards.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2014 at 2:35pm
You already provide the answer to the issue of what you need to be able to do BEFORE you attack such a ball.
You have to read the spin/depth/lack of kick properly and be in position and have swing start on time.
It can be frustrating as all let-out to think a ball will kick, then it doesn't... which leaves you both out of position and off time / lunging for the ball and the result is a comical fail. Opponent has a paramedic on standby speed-dial while he laughs his tail off watcfhing you sprawl all over urself.
Being able to read these balls comes with better skill in the sport. It is something we can learn the technical aspects of, but still requires skill and practice to cope with them in a match effectively. Better players are generally bettter at reading spin. It is just how it goes in our sport. Man I wish I could read spin a whole heap better when I play!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2014 at 3:08pm
Originally posted by gronkus gronkus wrote:

If I understand correctly, opt for a safer shot by reducing the power somewhat and then plan for the next shot assuming it is returned.  And maybe hit it top of bounce or slightly afterwards.

 
Exactly.  Reduce the power but load up the spin so that they will block the ball higher and give you an easier ball.  The only time when this might be dangerous is when you face a very good chop/push blocker - in that case, you have to be careful about the quality of spin because you don't want it to be so heavy that you lose the point once the ball is blocked.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2014 at 4:43pm
Remember that a LOT of teh old dudes in this sport are good blockers. You give them time, they will get there. You try to play with speed, they will anticipate and be there to direct your fast drive or fast loop back at your crossover or by you. You try to take off too much power and spin, they poke it at you uncomfortable.
 
These players have a LOT of ways to block and change the timing/placement/rhtym. What bothers a lot of these good blockers (if that is what they do well and it likely is) is HEAVY spin or a combination of a DEEP ball with some decent spin followed by a strong attack. They do not face so many players near their levels doing that. Players (offensive atticking ones at their level) are usually wildly aggressive attackers with not so great balance or movement to the ball. So.. a good blocking game and change of spin/pace/placement usually wins for them at their level. Heck, they been doing that game a LONG time with not so spinny equipment.
 
You will not worry about them spinning you out of the gym. They prey off your mistakes or loose balls, maybe also your not so smart attacks where they use it against you. What you gotta do as an attacker is to create a chance to open heavy and finish the point, or get them to mis read the spin and give you a ball higher/longer then they wanted to give you, which is an OH-SHYT! moment for them when you step up and finish those directly or with spin/kill 2 shot combination.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2014 at 5:11pm
yep can be hard when you have looped and they have blocked it back, for a couple of reasons
1. their block is not given back to where you were just standing so you could be trying to reloop when in a non comfortable position i.e too close to your cross over point or away from you, so either get into a better position to loop or don't loop that ball , just return it deep or away from their hitting zones and live for another day
2. as others have pointed out your 2nd loop of attempting to loop a block may not be the same stroke that you have just done, I think just good practice will be the most benefit, get a mate to do a long chop serve , you loop and he blocks and work out what is best for you, maybe just a spiny return but reduced power, it is often about timing and being in a good position
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2014 at 5:54pm
I might have told this story already - a group had 2000 junior girl talent, 1800 middle-aged male spin-hitter, 1700-upcoming boy junior, 1500 penhold pips blocker middle aged lady.
 
Match 1: 2000 vs 1700 - 3-0 (nothing special)
Match 2: 1800 vs 1500 - 3-0 (no spin serves and slow spinny loops mixed with aggressive kills)
Match 3: 2000 vs 1500 - 1-3 (fast spin loops blocked back and hit into net or off the table.  Pip hits not spun back with margin).
Match 4: 1800 vs 1700 - 3-0 (soft, spinny/low spin balls completely mistimed when aggressively attacked)
Match 5: 1700 vs 1500 - 0-3 (unable to consistently reloop slow balls against pips)
Match 6: 2000 vs. 1800 - 3-0 (serves and speed and ability to kill slow loops make it a no contest) 
 
Just shows you how even good young players can fail to loop with variety when their first loop comes back.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2014 at 6:22pm
just saw this video, may give u some ideas


Edited by Egghead - 04/15/2014 at 6:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2014 at 8:15pm
no spin or knuckle ball - loop it with a slightly more open racket angle but don't go down on a level like when looping underspin. make the stroke like more in a forward motion but not with a close angle like 10-20 degrees but with a 30 degree angle. do not try to contact the ball at its back, the ball will fly outside the table. looping it with a very closed angle will make it go towards the net.

little spin - almost similar to above but can be done with a closed racket angle. brush it forward and contact it at the top of the ball.
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