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Trying out pips for the first time |
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Rhainur
Super Member Joined: 05/04/2014 Location: Dubai Status: Offline Points: 102 |
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Posted: 05/04/2014 at 3:17am |
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I wasn't sure whether to post this in the Equipment section or the Coaching section, since this is a question about both aspects of the game.
Background: I started playing table tennis seriously last June, and when I say seriously I mean that I have played for at least 6 days a week for a minimum of 2 hours, always 3-4 hrs when I could manage it. In that time I have gone from a timid "push/chop everything back unless it's a couple of feet high, in which case try to smash" to better footwork, better positioning, opening up and looping any long or slightly high ball, etc, and recently I have just dug in and started to work on consistency, with repeated looping against a blocker, with and without movement. However, even though I find two-winged looping to be the most entertaining style to play and watch, I'd like to try out the different styles. The problem: I'm not sure where to start with pips. When I wanted to select a blade and inverted rubbers, there were plenty of people at my club who would let me try theirs for a couple of minutes. There are only 2 players at my club who use short pips and they don't seem particularly skilled at using them. There was a visiting player who played with short FH/long BH, and he was incredibly good, but he was only there for a day. The end result is that I have no way of knowing what to try without spending some money first. I know that long pips and short pips are significantly different from each other, and that long pips in particular require a different playstyle/different strokes compared to inverted. Questions: a) What is the best approach to trying out pips without disrupting/affecting my inverted looping practice? Inverted FH/Short BH? Long BH? Short FH/Long BH? b) I have a Stiga Classic Offensive WRB lying around. Would this be okay for a pips setup? What rubbers would go best with this? c) What tips would you give a player who is going to try pips without a coach to guide him? |
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Tek101
Super Member Joined: 12/03/2010 Location: Minneapolis, MN Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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a) What is the best approach to trying out pips without disrupting/affecting my inverted looping practice? Inverted FH/Short BH? Long BH? Short FH/Long BH?
if you want to try out pips without disrupting your looping style......... don't even think of trying Long Pips. I would suggest Inverted forehand still and Short Pips backhand. There are A LOT of different pips like any other rubber though. My suggestion though for just testing the water would be to get your hands on the Friendship 802 rubber, which is inexpensive (like $12) and is pretty forgiving. b) I have a Stiga Classic Offensive WRB lying around. Would this be okay for a pips setup? What rubbers would go best with this? I have not used this blade before but I am sure it would work. I myself use a Hunter Powertouch with Joola Brave 1.8 Forehand and TSP Spectol 2.15 Backhand. I am more of a blocker and if needed the max sponge on my pips allows me to hit/loop mid distance if needed. c) What tips would you give a player who is going to try pips without a coach to guide him? Just get out there and hit as many balls as you can (ie playing games/hitting with other people). it's not new footwork, just timing and feel for short pips. Also what helped me get used to short pips was to watch videos on you tube of Short pips players, such as: Tan Ruiwu, Tang Peng, and Johnny Huang. hope this helps
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1dennistt
Silver Member Joined: 03/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 533 |
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c) What tips would you give a player who is going to try pips without a coach to guide him?
Depending on which pips you try, you'll find you need to keep the racket angle more open for the pips than you did for your inverted against topspin for blocks and counters. Some pips offer more spin to work with, some offer very little. The 802 suggestion should be a good place to start, especially coming from inverted.
Edited by 1dennistt - 05/04/2014 at 10:47pm |
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Donic Waldner World Champion 1989 ZLC (Inner), Donic BlueStorm Pro (Red) Max, ????? (Black) 1.8 mm)
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mjamja
Platinum Member Joined: 05/30/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2895 |
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If you do decide to try out long pips I would suggest that you try to get in some time hitting against a robot. Unless you have a really high level hitting partner you most likely will not get a consistent shot coming back at you. This makes it much harder to figure out what you are doing right and what you are doing wrong. With a robot you can get a much more consistent ball (speed and spin) so that you can figure out what kind of a stroke (motion and blade angle) that you need for that particular kind of spin and pace.
I somewhat disagree on what type of pips would be less disruptive to your normal inverted strokes. The strokes for short pips are just close enough to those for inverted that I think you might replace your muscle memory of the inverted strokes with those for short pips. On the other hand the strokes for using long pips is so different that I think you would be creating new muscle memory without replacing the muscle memory of your inverted strokes. I switched to short pips on my Bh not too long ago. Sometimes I twiddle during practice so that my practice partner can see the more normal inverted spin coming at them. I have found that even in a relative short time my inverted strokes have been replaced by the SP ones and I really have to focus in order to keep the ball on the table when I switch to the inverted. During the very short time I experimented with LP's I did not notice much of a problem switching back and forth. Good luck with you experimentation. Mark
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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I agree with Mark. Short pips can ruin your inverted strokes if you don't work out the technical distinctions consciously enough. On the backhand, the transition is easier than on the forehand because many people hit the backhand. But it also depends on what kind of sponge thickness and pips - the tensioned spinnier pips are easier to transition to from tensioned rubbers, which is why 802 can be an unfortunate even if cost effective recommendation. The Butterfly pips are expensive, but that or even speedysoft Dtecs are better transition options.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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suds79
Silver Member Joined: 08/20/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 878 |
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Have to know more about what style you're wanting to play? I take it the pips are for your backhand? Are you playing close to the table and continuing to hit with the backhand? Are you looking to play off and chop? I'm a big advocate for pips but it's hard to me to say "sure make the switch" on just a whim wanting to try something different without knowing what you're wanting to accomplish. If you go short pips (say an 802) on the backhand you can expect... - Great accuracy on direction blocking - Good feel of the ball - Good speed - Significantly less reaction off your blade in service return - a big adjustment when simply pushing. The ball won't grab your topsheet like it does with inverted. It's much more flat and forward when pushing. - a drive oriented game. Looping is pretty much gone... If you're far off the table and they hit to your backhand, might want to chop that ball. That said, chopping will feel a lot better than it would with inverted IMO. If you want to try pips without a big adjustment, I'd say 802-40 in 2.0 sponge. If you want a more true short pips experience, I'd say 1.5 or 2.0 of regular 802. Watch a lot of Johnny Huang video and check out this site. http://www.pipfacts.info/ |
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Egghead
Premier Member Joined: 09/05/2009 Location: N.A. Status: Offline Points: 4230 |
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x2 Without any coaching sessions, 802-40 is good choice. May be KTL Stranger Attack Long Pimples (>=1.2mm sponge thickness), |
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tabletennis11
Super Member Joined: 06/26/2012 Location: Estonia Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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Suggest 802 on the backhand and keep the forehand inverted, that gives you room to practice defensive play on the backhand but continue to press offensive on the forehand. Also 802 is a moderately priced rubber and is also medium sponge thickness and great control and spin, probably the best place to start :)
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Rhainur
Super Member Joined: 05/04/2014 Location: Dubai Status: Offline Points: 102 |
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I try to play close to table, and while in the past I was mainly finishing points with a drive or smash, recently I have started looping more and more. My footwork still has a long way to go, so especially after I get tired, I often get caught out of position and am forced to push. I don't think I have the footwork for a lot of chopping, to be honest. |
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TT newbie
Gold Member Joined: 11/25/2011 Location: Far Far Away Status: Offline Points: 1391 |
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I don´t understand the reason so many users recommend 802-40. In my opinion it is a terrible rubber. Too hard, poor control when hitting and bad touch feeling.
I changed to Moristo SP and it´s another world. It is soft, much faster and I can really feel the tension in it.
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suds79
Silver Member Joined: 08/20/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 878 |
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What sponge did you try it with? There are multiple versions. I've only tried the version sold by zeropong which comes with a 35 deg sponge so it's anything but hard. On their website, they brand the soft sponge for giving better feel of control. I don't know if that's true or not but if you tried a hard sponged version and felt the control was bad, maybe they're right. To the OP. Just to be clear. When you say you've been looping more. Do you mean with your backhand? Or forehand. Whatever side you put the pips on, you won't be looping... At least not of a high quality that's for sure.
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TwiddleDee
Super Member Joined: 12/27/2011 Status: Offline Points: 141 |
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I too don't understand why 802-40 is so highly recommended. I tried it with a variety of sponge thickness and sponge hardness. Tried it on the backhand and forehand. When I transitioned from inverted to short pips on the forehand, I found the transition easier with raw pips on a soft sponge, 30 to 35 degrees, at least 1.9 mm. Play close to the table and hit through the ball with a relaxed arm. It is very important to stay relaxed when hitting against loops, or your ball will go long. Hitting against underspin is more difficult. I found it easier to learn that technique by hitting underspin with a hardbat. I also think that Moristo SP is a great pips choice.
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tt4me
Gold Member Joined: 01/17/2013 Location: RC Poverty Zone Status: Offline Points: 1019 |
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There is nothing special about 802-40 except that the top sheet grips the ball a little better than 802. The 35 degree sponges are the same except 802 only comes in 1.5mm and 2mm and 802-40 comes in 1.8mm, 2mm and 2.2mm from zeropong. All versions are light and very inexpensive so it is a good way to start playing with SP.
I find the 35 deg sponge to be fast enough and all the 802s to be easy to control. I have a paddle with 802-1 that has 1.8mm HRS sponge that is a little harder. I didn't like the HRS sponge at first but I adapted. At some point I will experiment. I wish 802 came in 1.8mm which is my favorite BH thickness. I will try different sponges available from colestt. I don't think SP should be expensive. The advice about hitting through the ball is valid. Much depends on how spinny the incoming ball is. It is foolish to try to counter loop and ball with lots of top spin because the pips will not grip and reverse the spin so the ball will go into the net.
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bbkon
Premier Member Joined: 04/19/2005 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 7260 |
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now i know why moristo is the more popular pip in japan used ny pros, the best balance between control/disturbance/spin
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