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RPB - Blindspot when hitting returns |
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PenguinSpin
Beginner Joined: 05/26/2014 Location: SoCal Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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Posted: 06/05/2014 at 4:07am |
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Hi all!
Been a traditional cPen player all my life (back when it was 21pts). I recently picked up the sport again and learned about RPB. I can do everything with the Traditional Penhold, but got hooked on the potential power of the RPB as my traditional backhand is pretty good (can even get some topspin out of it) but can't get nearly the same power and looping as I see with RPB. So got a new racket (double sided - YE/TG3/FIIISnipe, my old one was a single sided DHS G1835) to start picking up RPB. Been studying videos including Waing Ho's instructional and the one in this thread: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63345&title=translation-request-rpb-technique Got some questions for all the RPB players. So been able to hit good returns with RPB over the table but still perfecting and still will auto-default to tradition backhand (old habits hard to break) if I'm not paying a attention and forcing myself to play RPB. I'm noticing a couple things: 1) There does seem to be a minimum speed and height/bounce of the receiving ball in order to do the topspin rpb otherwise I'm finding doing a rpb push is required. 2) What I'm noticing is when I do a RPB (the returns land across on the table near the end line) and my racket stroke is coming from my chest out, I have a moment where there is a blind spot where I can't follow the ball since my racket is in front of my line of sight -- I see my black front face of my racket and then the ball will pop out beyond it. My RPB return is usually a line drive from the center of my body across the table -- right in my line of sight. Wondering if this is normal and will get use to or doing something a little off. Of course when you do the cPen forehand you don't have this issue since the racket doesn't cross my line of sight, but finding the RPB stroke has this issue (or at least what I'm seeing) where I have a blindspot on following the ball across the table. I'm bending my knees and crouching a bit forward so I can better return the low balls that are over the table so maybe it's the angle of my eye sight.... also I'm a bit small 5'4" :). It's more for balls that are over the table, past the table this is not so much an issue I'm experiencing. Of course this is not an issue with an rpb push. Thanks so much for the help and appreciate any tips/comments!
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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By RPB push, I bet you mean RPB block?
If an oncoming shot can be returned with a block, it's usually apt to be returned with a loop. It's normal for your racket to block your view when doing the RPB loop. The same is true for shakehand. You'll get used to it. |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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Re1Mu2R3
Super Member Joined: 10/23/2009 Location: Chyna Status: Offline Points: 415 |
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Hey 5'3 here and I have the same 'problem'.. well not really a problem as long as you can read the ball hitting the table before doing your stroke as it's not bound to change trajectory but being 5'3 I tend to stoop down doing my RPB strokes Ai Fukuhara style so I contact the ball in front of my chest so there is a short moment of having a blind spot right before contact.
I've seen guys in the 5'7-'8 range who don't stoop down that much doing their RPBs but start the stroke low and contact at about stomach level and their loops are much spinnier than mine. Really depends on your playstyle. |
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V-Griper
Silver Member Joined: 09/19/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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6' This happens to me when I need to get low to loop the ball. Doesn't really bother me at all, in fact it is usually my cue that I am low enough and in the right position.
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Krantz
Super Member Joined: 05/14/2009 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 276 |
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I think that both your questions indicate the same problem and chances are that your position is indeed to low (you mention that you are not very tall and you still bend your knees during play). Firstly, RPB is the best thing since sliced bread for looping low, over the table balls - but for this to work your racket should point downward (its similar to the so called banana flick), so you naturally have to stand a bit higher on your legs to make this swing. Secondly, if this obscuring your point of view during backhand loop becomes a problem then I would say that you are indeed taking the ball just too high relative to your body position (this happens to me sometimes but in such case I instantly know that I was positioned badly for the stroke and I lose a lot of precision and power). Lastly, while backhand strokes are versatile enough that they let you hit balls just in front of your body - or even your head (you hit from the center of your body, as you put it) and certainly you should use this feature to your advantage when the time calls, the actual optimum striking zone for backhand is a bit left from your center line (somewhere around shoulder width lets say) - and imo it definitely isn't high enough to regularly obscure your view. Overall I think that you should give a try to a bit higher playing position.
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PenguinSpin
Beginner Joined: 05/26/2014 Location: SoCal Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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Great comments!
I'll make some adjustments and see how it goes. Maybe raise my stance and try to hit slightly my left side. Oh by push I mean the racket is angled up (instead of down) and racket pointed down (instead of up) still with backside of the racket and just "pushing" or "digging" or slightly "chopping" the ball back - believe this is a push whereas a block is more similar to the rpb loop and angled down but less spin. I find I need to sometimes do this on really low or short balls over the table play that I can't seem to rpb loop back, not enough bounce -- when try to rpb loop just goes into the net. It's what I see in this RPB video that was also posted here: http://youtu.be/dET5gp0fGmk Also for RPB players, are there any spins that should not be returned with a RPB loop? Thanks! Edited by PenguinSpin - 06/05/2014 at 11:26am |
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V-Griper
Silver Member Joined: 09/19/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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Stroke example in slow motion.
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DHS 301
Xiom Vega 7pro FH/BH |
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davidz
Super Member Joined: 10/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 143 |
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Since my playing style is too close to the table, RPB does not work well for me. RPB hit is powerful, however, RPB loop is usually very weak. I practiced a RPB for a while, and then completely get rid of it.
When you play too close to the table, RPB works well for slow ball. However, when the ball speed is fast, it is very difficult to determine if RPB or traditional backhand to be used. The second issue is dead spot you described. In order to solve both issues, you need to stand slight far from the table for better RPB. This will change your original playing style. |
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sandiway
Gold Member Joined: 04/15/2010 Status: Offline Points: 1554 |
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I had the same experience. I stopped playing for about 10 years. Then started up again using RPB, first casually, now a bit more seriously. It took me a while to break the TPB habit because it takes more time and setup to get ready for the RPB (than the TPB). You gotta think more like a shakehander. The RPB is potentially just as versatile as a shakehands backhand. You can use it close to the table or far away. You can get some power too. |
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Pushdeep
Super Member Joined: 10/10/2013 Location: America Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Shakehand has the same blind spot. Only TPB doeant have this blind spot because you caanot do a front of the body backhand loop anyway.
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PenguinSpin
Beginner Joined: 05/26/2014 Location: SoCal Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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Good to know this is normal :).
Thanks Sandiway. I believe you also did a blog about your training back in China. Been studying those videos too :). Most videos (including the killerspin) show close to the table and away from the table. I've only seen a couple with folks using it for OVER the table play where the ball is short and would do a double bounce. Those are the cases I'm most interested in how people handle them. If the ball is long enough and will bounce beyond the table then definitely a rpb loop is no issue. It's the case of OVER the table in front on you, the ball is low, short and will double bounce I'm interested in what rpb players are doing to handle that. I almost want to do a traditional backhand block (racket is pointing sideways pointing left if right-handed) and doing a "brush" stroke in those cases (which will work) but if I'm sticking with rpb what's the correct rpb backhand stroke? Thanks! |
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sandiway
Gold Member Joined: 04/15/2010 Status: Offline Points: 1554 |
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I've changed technique quite a bit since the earlier videos (when I was more beginner-level RPB). This is the most recent one. Haven't put it on my blog yet but have posted it here before. As my understanding increased, there were changes. But because RPB is relatively new to me, changes are much easier to make than with my basement-level forehand.
You can banana them just like a shakehander using the reverse side. Or you can do a short push using the TP side. I've never seen people use the reverse side for pushing unless it's an unexpected ball. |
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ChichoFicho
Platinum Member Joined: 06/24/2009 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 2118 |
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Stick to the traditional backhand. If you try to learn RPB, you will most probably mess up your game.
I suggest sticking a long pips OX to the back of your blade for occasional chop or push against spinny serves.
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nikk64
Super Member Joined: 08/03/2011 Location: BG Status: Offline Points: 146 |
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Butterfly Boll Tricarbon off , FH- Armstrong Attack 8 PZC-SP EX-X- 4.0 , RPB-Butterfly Tenergy 80-FX- max
video-https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0vx5 |
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PenguinSpin
Beginner Joined: 05/26/2014 Location: SoCal Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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This is what I'm looking for. Any good videos showing a banana flip using rpb on short serves? I've mainly found shakerhand hold videos but no luck with rpb banana flips on short serves. Curious is a banana flip even possible using tpb, seems physically not doable. Maybe I'll stick with doing short pushes using the TP side. I tried pushes using RPB side and it's way awkward especially if you need to extend out in front of you, creates a sharp angle on the return. Thanks!
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Pondus
Gold Member Joined: 04/07/2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1933 |
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Edited by Pondus - 06/05/2014 at 3:47pm |
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Loop40mm
Super Member Joined: 11/17/2011 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 416 |
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I agree with the comment about learning RPB new. On day 1 of my RPB, I had coaching. After a while, the coach did not comment any RPB flaws but continued to correct the flaws on my forehand. I had a practice partner who was pretty good with TPB. After more than six months of focused practice of RPB, he told me instinctively he used RPB when the ball came to his backhand. He was determined to learn RPB. |
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PenguinSpin
Beginner Joined: 05/26/2014 Location: SoCal Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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Thanks for the links!
So looks that the banana flips/flicks is mainly wrist movement whereas the rpb loop is keeping the racket locked in 90d to the forearm and using the elbow as the folcrum. This is very helpful thanks! Looks like good old practicing to make it natural. BTW: Why is it called banana flip? Is the movement of opening a banana upside down or what happens when you slip on a banana? :) |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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V-Griper
Silver Member Joined: 09/19/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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This might help as well. I posted a link to the forum post because Zeio was kind enough to translate.
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DHS 301
Xiom Vega 7pro FH/BH |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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Actually, both involve leading with the elbow - the level of wrist usage is the differentiator. If you don't lead with elbow on your banana flicks, the quality will suffer. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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sandiway
Gold Member Joined: 04/15/2010 Status: Offline Points: 1554 |
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I think the only area where the traditional backhand can be said to be superior is the block. Perhaps my level is still too low, but it seems the wrist angle for the traditional block is more natural. Sandiway
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suds79
Silver Member Joined: 08/20/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 878 |
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I play a traditional backhand most of the time but I am loving the setup of twiddling my OX LPs to my forehand on service return. Obviously I can use the LPs on the vast majority of serves but if I want, the inverted is there for a RPB banana flick on short serves. It's a nice change up if your opponent gets used to thinking you're always going to passively stick out your LPs for a safe service return. For this alone I think it's important to at least know how to use the RPB when needed... And that's coming form someone who uses it maybe 10% of the time.
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PenguinSpin
Beginner Joined: 05/26/2014 Location: SoCal Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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Got a question: when doing a rpb return on short serves (double bounce) with backspin when do you hit the ball? Right off the bounce or after the crest?
Where are you hitting the ball in relation to the paddle (top, bottom, side) with the handle being the bottom? What's the angle of the paddle if I'm looking from the side view with 90d being perpendicular to the table. I've been watching videos but really hard to see what's going on and when to hit it back without hitting it into the net. Thanks so much! Edited by PenguinSpin - 06/18/2014 at 2:31am |
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