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Staring at the ball and pace control |
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kindof99
Premier Member Joined: 02/07/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4228 |
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Posted: 07/26/2014 at 8:40am |
I browsed through the coaching tips here. It appears that no one talked about staring at the ball for return and pace control. To professionals, staring at the ball is the fundamental. But for amateurs, I am not sure how many pay attention. My understanding is that without staring at the ball properly, it is no way that a player can go up to a certain level. I think for any 1800+ players, staring at the ball is a habit already.
Is there any post here talking about staring ball for return and pace control? Many coaches ask their students to slow it down, but do not specifically mention how. To me, I feel staring at the ball is the way to slow the pace and reduce errors in return.
Edited by kindof99 - 07/26/2014 at 8:45am |
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Lestat
Super Member Joined: 01/16/2012 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 421 |
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It's more than staring, it's tracking. There's a blurry line between the two, but it's really when you track that your returns improve considerably. Most obvious when you flip serves with sidespin on it.
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
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SEEING the ball is important, but staring at the ball... there isn't any time for that. You got just a fraction of a second to see the opponent is doing, his/her impact, read the ball, decide/move and prepare to hit. Definitely not enough time to stare.
On serve receive, there is a little more time obviously, but not enough to stare. Watching the ball flight is one way to read the spin, but one cannot make a university study of the ball, just won't work.
Maybe we should use another word.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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Lestat already gave the word: "Tracking".
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Something I figured out a long time ago, you have to track the ball for sure---but you also need to always know where your playing hand is. When you have both those things going, everything works better. If either one is not happening, things go badly.
This seems simple and obvious but in fact it is not, and it has huge implications for how you stand and move in between shots. |
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GMan4911
Silver Member Joined: 08/31/2012 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 830 |
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I think staring is fine up to a certain point, maybe around 1600, because you're still working on stroke technique and keeping the ball on the table. Beyond that, you need to track the ball AND your opponent. Opponents above 1700 make fewer mistakes when hitting the ball into their power zones and you're not going to defeat them by giving them easy balls to return. By keeping track of your opponent, you are better able keep the ball outside of their power zones. This becomes even more important the higher up you go.
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V-Griper
Silver Member Joined: 09/19/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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I did bring this up in a post but nobody seemed to be interested in discussing it.
Here is the link to my original post. There was also a breakdown of what you should be giving your attention to, by Wturber on the OOAK forums. It's pretty long but I will paste it below. There is a vid discussing TB's visual acuity(German language). My current operating principle is that you can maintain central focus on the ball and the peripheral picks up the opponents movements giving you information with regard to what they are going to do and where they are when you are hitting the ball. All the high speed vid that I've seen show players tracking the ball into the area of contact with the ball but not entirely certain whether or not they are tracking the out going shot. The postulate is that they shift focus to the other player or part of the player such as the arm or paddle. Then re-acquire the ball and track it into the contact area. There is no direct evidence to support this hypothesis from eye tracking studies. Here is another vid by a manufacturer of eye tracking system that would seem to indicate that the ball is tracked to and from the opposing player. Here is another one with some casual hitters. Tracking study from 2002 journal of sports sciences. Just google and download the pdf if you want to read the whole thing. Abstract- The aim of this study was to determine the role of head, eye and arm movements during the execution of a table tennis forehand stroke. Three-dimensional kinematic analysis of line-of-gaze, arm and ball was used to describe visual and motor behaviour. Skilled and less skilled participants returned the ball to cued right or left target areas under three levels of temporal constraint: pre-, early- and late-cue conditions. In the pre- and early-cue conditions, both high and low skill participants tracked the ball early in flight and kept gaze stable on a location in advance of the ball before ball-bat contact. Skilled participants demonstrated an earlier onset of ball tracking and recorded higher performance accuracy than less skilled counterparts. The manipulation of cue condition showed the limits of adaptation to maintain accuracy on the target. Participants were able to accommodate the constraints imposed by the early-cue condition by using a shorter quiet eye duration, earlier quiet eye offset and reduced arm velocity at contact. In the late-cue condition, modifications to gaze, head and arm movements were not sufficient to preserve accuracy. The findings highlight the functional coupling between perception and action during time-constrained, goal-directed actions. wturber's post content- Yes, Fish is correct. The real issue is not primarily reaction times, but is anticipation - the ability to reasonably predict what is going to happen next. Also important, and perhaps more important is your stroke follow through, stroke preparation and footwork. In other words, doing what you can to make it easier to take action once you know what you need to do next. I'll walk through a stroke and return to give you some ideas about the practical steps that you can take to improve in these areas. But keep in mind that you need to practice these things. Simply being told something and understanding it won't help much. You need to turn knowledge into near automatic (subconscious) reaction. That's what practice and training does. First of all, the typical time between ball contacts is about .5 seconds. Watch the pros. They manage their table distance to keep the time between contacts to about .5 seconds. That's because typical human reaction time is about .25 - .3 seconds. They want consistency, so they work to get that .5 seconds so that they can make high quality shots. So the goal here is to make good use of the .5 seconds between when the ball leaves your racket and your opponent strikes the ball. 1) The first place to save time is on your follow through. On your forehand loop, do you cross the midpoint of your body. If you do, you are making it harder to react to the next ball. So try not to cross your body even on a hard shot. If you cross your body, it had better be a strong "kill" or your opponent should be well back from the table. Rotating that much has a price. Make sure its worth it if you are going to follow through BIG. I'm sure you've seen that guy who makes a great loop or smash only to have it blocked to the open court that he can't cover because he's falling away from the table with his big follow through. 2) Don't spend any time checking to see if your shot lands. Once you hit it, there's nothing you can do about it any more. So just assume it's going to hit where you aimed it. You've got other things to do in the next .5 seconds. Many players "strike a pose" as they wait and watch their ball land (or not). That's time wasted. Immediately after contact your priorities are to reset your feet and get back on balance. You can usually do this with a short hop backwards and a bend of the needs. Think "hit and hop." This is easier to do if your swing was compact and didn't cross your centerline as mentioned in item one. While you are hopping back to a neutral and balanced position, you should be bringing your racket back to its ready position. Don't "force" it back, just relax your arm (releasing any swing slowing tension while doing so) and let it drop back to a comfortable neutral position with your elbow near your side and the racket in front of you. From this position you can easily prepare for a backhand or a forehand shot. (BTW, do this when you warm up as well. Most players go directly from the end of their follow through to their backswing when warming up and drilling. I think this ingrains a bad habit of not returning to a neutral/ready position. So when practicing, try to relax to neutral after each stroke, then begin the next stroke. It will feel awkward, but doing this will reward you long term.) This is actually what you should think of as the end of your stroke. The follow-through isn't the end of the stroke. Returning to ready and balanced is the end of the stroke. If you can return to ready before your shot lands, you are in good shape to deal with your opponent's return. 3) While you were returning to ready, you should have been subtly shifting your focus from the ball and toward your opponent. Where is his body going? What is his racket doing? Is he preparing to loop, push, or block. By watching his body you should be able to pick up on all kinds of clues as to what he's planning. And guess what? You are already on balance and ready to react to whatever that is because you're already in a neutral/ready position. You might want to keep the thought in mind that your heels shouldn't ever touch the ground. You are always on your toes ready to hop into position. You are gliding around - floating on your toes. If you really need to plant strongly, don't worry. Being on your toes won't slow you down. Staying on your toes is hard work. But it pays dividends. Also not planting your heel makes it less likely that you'll put nasty torque stresses on your knees. 4) You are now in good shape to return the ball. You can probably tell almost exactly where your opponent is going to hit the ball. And guess what, you may actually have more than .5 seconds to react if you anticipate correctly and decide before your opponent hits the ball. If your opponent had to move to his right you should be adjusting to your right, not with big steps, but with a short hop or hops. If he's winding up to loop hard, you might be hopping backwards as well to give yourself more time to handle the pace. Watch the pros, they typically work themselves back from the table as the shots get stronger and faster. Note how if you watch them you can imagine them connected by rope that crosses the over the table. As one player "dances" left, his opponent also dances left. Your opponent's position dictates to a large extent where he can hit the ball. When one player can't keep up with the "dance", he usually loses the point. 5) So you were right. Your opponent loops cross-court to your forehand ... So, it isn't really reaction time. If it comes down to that, you either played poorly or your opponent is much better than you. Reaction time schmeaction time. It's about stroke mechanics, footwork and practice. ;^) Edited by V-Griper - 07/26/2014 at 3:37pm |
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kindof99
Premier Member Joined: 02/07/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4228 |
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'staring the ball" is plain translation from chinese. I think it is more than just tracking the ball. It includes watching the spin of the ball. I am not sure how long it will take for me to make it a habit to stare the ball. I think it is am important part of the game and significantly underestimated and neglected.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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Plain translations sometimes fail to convey meaning, but do note that information about spin is also in the ball trajectory as well as the opponent's stroke. So tracking the ball is often more involved than just following the ball and requires you to assess the spin on the ball to predict breaks and optimal contact points and speeds. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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