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The future of defence? |
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Tassie52
Gold Member Joined: 10/09/2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1318 |
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Posted: 08/15/2014 at 7:29pm |
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Im surprised that no-one seems to have picked up this match:
Can we expect to see more of Artur Abusev? How far do you think he might go? (And no, this is not a thread about the blasted poly ball.)
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2576 |
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is the poly ball used in this video? - just curious.
very active modern defenders btw. Their pushes do not look spinny but its hard to tell, chops and loops definitely have loads of spin on them. ps. those annoying people yelling in the background need to be penalized. Edited by DreiZ - 08/15/2014 at 7:42pm |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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He's a classic defender. His chops are good but he needs to become a modern defender and attack a LOT more with his forehand if he has any hopes of going far. Classic defense is dead at the top.
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skip3119
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2006 Location: somewhere Status: Offline Points: 8257 |
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=========================== Need to be able to attack with backhand also, like Muramatsu Yuto. He looks very young, may have far more room to improve.
Edited by skip3119 - 08/15/2014 at 9:23pm |
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skip3119
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Tassie52
Gold Member Joined: 10/09/2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1318 |
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kakapo
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2013 Location: Mordor Status: Offline Points: 3430 |
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This boy has a good potential but I think his chop technique has to improve because a lot of his balls come back to high. Of course a high ball can be very dangerous but it has to be very long. He doesn't seem to control very well the length and the height of his chopping balls.
Also, his backhand pimples doesn't seem to be very deceptive. If he uses short pimples, he will have to adapt his chopping technique (too much pushes, he must go under the ball and get a better contact with it), if he uses LP, he will have to change. His attacking forehand is not bad and if he uses short pimples, it will be very interesting if he learns to hit sometimes like Hou Yingchao for instance, that would prevent his opponent to be too confortable in the game. I have to say that his opponent from Romania plays very well and I'm sure he is very good against defensive players, which is not obvious with young players who often don't know how to play against such a style. We will see what will happen with this boy but sometimes, it is never too late, look at Shiono....
Edited by kakapo - 08/16/2014 at 2:30am |
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ChichoFicho
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Defence is dead at top level. Of course, he can make it to top 200 in the world in 20 years from now, if he is lucky!
Edited by ChichoFicho - 08/18/2014 at 7:52pm |
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Matt Pimple
Gold Member Joined: 12/03/2012 Location: Phoenix Status: Offline Points: 1995 |
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Let's see...a quick look at the world rankings: 19. Joo 33. Gionis 47. Shiono 57. Chen 76. Filus 86. Muramatsu Did I miss somebody? Also, Li Kewei in the US (rating 2750) has beaten Eugen Wang (#65 in the world) twice this year; he was around 80 in the world at some point.
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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Hey Chicho |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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Many of the defenders in the top 100 developed their offensive forehands late in life. If he has serious potential, his style won't prevent him from being in the top 50. His training partners might...
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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jrscatman
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Isn't there a French Junior who's also a modern defender. Don't recall his name.
I enjoy seeing good defensive players but I think attack players have the advantage. A high ranked defensive player told me without frictionless pips there is no way to stop a good looper.
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ChichoFicho
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Reaching top 100 is unrealistic. He needs to be extremely talented and smart to achieve it. The only defenders that played at such level for the past 20 years are Chtchetinine and Matsushita. When Chtchetinine retires, that's going to be probably the end of the defensive style at high level.
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Matt Pimple
Gold Member Joined: 12/03/2012 Location: Phoenix Status: Offline Points: 1995 |
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I am not saying it is realistic for this kid to reach top 100 because it is difficult to judge from one video. I do not know the kid, his determination and his coaches. Did you see my post above? There are currently 6 defenders in the top 100 (and Chtchetinine is not) though I did not look further down from 101-200 as there probably quite a few more guys. How can you say that when Chtchetinine retires it's the end of the defensive style? And I would like to argue that the best and most consistant defender for the past 20 years was Joo. No other defender was ranked as high as Joo and had his achievements.
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ChichoFicho
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Most people tend to refer to Joo and the likes of him as defenders. They are not. Have you ever seen Weixing or Gionis chop with their forehand? Never. Joo started to play more defensive oriented style only when he was not fast enough to play loop vs loop. The only world class defender who is still active is Chtchetinine. His peak ranking was ~40, if I am not mistaken.
A few years ago there was a very talented junior defender from Sweden. He was way more talented than this one. Never managed to adapt to the speed and the spin of the men's game though. Edited by ChichoFicho - 08/19/2014 at 12:23pm |
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skip3119
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Muramatsu Yuto.
Shiono Masato.
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skip3119
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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The other point here is that the reason there are not more defenders in the top 100 is not purely about the style - it is also about the fact that player are not pushed towards it. It's a miracle that Muromatsu likes to chop - he is built to loop the ball very powerfully and will probably be the most powerful Japanese forehand for many years to come. Edited by NextLevel - 08/19/2014 at 12:26pm |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Matt Pimple
Gold Member Joined: 12/03/2012 Location: Phoenix Status: Offline Points: 1995 |
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Yes, Joo and Gionis do not chop with their forehand but they are still considered defenders. Usually the term modern defender is used for their style: backhand chop with long pips and forehand attack. Whereas Chtchetinine is a classic defender who chops on both wings and his style might die out. As with every style (attack or defence) there is an evolution. Take a look at attackers 20 years ago, do people still play the same style? I have to disagree with you that Joo and the likes are not defenders.
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Matt Pimple
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There were also a heck of a lot of very talented attackers that never went anywhere.
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ChichoFicho
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Yes. Ma Lin also chops/pushes sometimes with his forehand at serve return. |
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Darker Speed 70
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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It is nice to see this kid. He's fifteen. He will get better. Hope there are more like him. I disagree with ChichoFicho about this, mainly because I think that Joo and Chen are most certainly defenders. This young guy will need to learn to attach more with his forehand. He will.
By the way, I was also pretty impressed with how well the opponent played against the defender, since it seems unlikely that he could have played very much against that style. It seems table tennis is alive and well. |
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Matt Pimple
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I agree that this is the main reason as there just aren't enough coaches out there teaching or advocating a defensive style. Anywhere you look kids are taught how to loop.
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skip3119
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=========================== Completely agree with that. When 95%, or more, young players are learning how to loop and attack, what do you expect? Of course, the top 100 players are loaded with attackers.
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skip3119
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Baal
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Yes, that's why it's cool to see any young guy playing this way at this level.
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