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Sealed blade increase speed by 10%

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    Posted: 02/26/2015 at 7:53pm
I've not sealed my blades, until I did one recently, and notice its speed has increased at least 10 percents.

It came as a surprise for me. Normally, the dropping point of my ball (when I loop) is in the middle of the table on the opponent side. With the seal on, the dropping point of my ball is further towards the edge of the table, almost on the line without any of my extra effort when looping. This change in the ball dropping point upsets my opponents by moving them back off the table. I guess the loop may be faster or spinner, because after hitting the table, the ball accelerates to jump forwards with top spin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AgentHEX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 7:58pm
If you put two additional plies on a thin 5-layer blade you get a thicker and faster 7-layer blade.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 8:44pm
Some sealants change how blades play. The more they penetrate into the wood the bigger the effect. Softer top plys especially susceptible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 9:12pm
If you put so much on you can see it, yes it's going to add that much speed. I barely dust mine to lightly dampen. I doubt it adds more than 2 or 3 percent if that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 10:06pm
Same here... I just wipe on and then off a very thin layer, which dries almost instantly, so it's not going to have time to penetrate the wood.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyChop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2015 at 10:07pm
Originally posted by wankhao wankhao wrote:

I've not sealed my blades, until I did one recently, and notice its speed has increased at least 10 percents.

It came as a surprise for me. Normally, the dropping point of my ball (when I loop) is in the middle of the table on the opponent side. With the seal on, the dropping point of my ball is further towards the edge of the table, almost on the line without any of my extra effort when looping. This change in the ball dropping point upsets my opponents by moving them back off the table. I guess the loop may be faster or spinner, because after hitting the table, the ball accelerates to jump forwards with top spin.

What did you seal with?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CipheR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2015 at 1:02am
Sealant or varnish does stiffen the blade, depending on the amount you use. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2015 at 1:14am
It can increase the speed, but a light coat will not be noticeable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2015 at 1:15am
Wait, if as you said the difference in ball placement was from mid-table to near-edge, and that corresponds to 10% increase, then you must be standing at least a table length (9-feet) from the edge of the table when you hit the ball.  You must be power-looping or lobbing Geek
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wankhao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2015 at 7:26am
Hi Pingponger

thank you for your response. In regards to the 10% increase, I mean power or catapult.
Because I used to train with this chopper, that every time I loop against his chop, my ball always drop about  middle of table on his side. With the new sealed blade on, I can make the ball to drop near the edge of the table with the same effort.

In term of speed, when I block or counter-loop, my ball used to land in middle of table on the opponent side. Now with the sealant on, the ball lands further towards the edge of table with the same effort put in. Therefore, I give it a 10% increase in power, due to the fact I am using no extra power, and the ball lands about 20-30cm further. It has the effect very similar to speed glue before the VOC era.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wankhao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2015 at 7:28am
Hi AgentHex

You're right, spot-on about the extra layers. I was thinking to upgrade my YEO to YEO 7 Power.
Now with the sealant on, I no longer need the extra plies of YEO 7. There is a little catch, the blade gets a bit heavier after sealant.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wankhao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2015 at 7:38am
Hi Johnny-chop

I just use normal wood varnish for sealant, the clear varnish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wankhao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2015 at 7:42am
Hi Baal

I don't know what you mean by penetrate into the blade. But I will put more layer of sealant on the blade the next time I re-glue the rubbers on it.

I will add more layers towards the edge of the blade, making it easier to loop and increasing power as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr.Cho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2015 at 10:28am
It might seem faster to you but their is no way to account for your swing speed while looping.

I would think one thin coat wouldn't make much in the way of speed.

like washing your car.... makes it rain.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2015 at 4:03am
What a funny discussion. Smile

You buy a blade of your choice and then you add SOME layers of sealing to get more speed, catapult and power? Why don`t you buy a faster blade to get more power? There are so much discussions here in this forum about the different blades, their compositions, different characteristics of different veneers, ...

Do you like the feeling of the wood or the feeling of the sealing or lacquer? Most sealing-products really seal up the wood and change their characteristics, especially if you use too much of this sealing. Therefore I always use two very thin layers of hardwaxoil to seal my (especially older) unsealed blades. In contrast to other products hardwaxoil also protects the wood, but the wood is still able to "breath" and so the blade retains its original properties. 

People like Mr. Moon (Nexy) and other blade-developer are thinking and thinking about different wood, different structure and different veneer-thickness and what happens? Some guys add tons of sealing. That`s the reason, why I always ask, if a blade has an additional sealing, when I am planning to buy one here on the marketplace, because most dealings are too thick and often patchy. I really hate thick sealings. This ruins the blade in my eyes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wankhao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2015 at 7:51am
Hi Magic_M

Thank you for your response. Yes, it sounds simple buy new blades which I used to end up with 10 blades rarely used.

Now there're 2 things about blades: (1) the look - shape (2) the feel - the hitting capacity of the blade.
Some blade has very good shape and handle, which you get used to it that you don't want to change into a new one.

I have a question for you: Can you advise me how many blades a professional player (eg. ZhangJike or Malin) has used during their career long?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2015 at 8:02am
Not sure if I should laugh or cry. If sealing increase the speed by 10%, then you are most likely putting on way to much. With normal sealing, Im confident that I wouldnt be able to tell the difference between a sealed and a unsealed blade, not in speed or weight.

If you put on so much sealer so it actually makes a noticeable difference, you might violate the blade rule about natural wood. Heck, Ive tried so called two speed blades where one side is supposed to be faster, but there havent been 10% difference in them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2015 at 4:26pm
I have seen an effect that big when someone used multiple coats of polyurethane, not with any normal sort of sealer.  And there is no going back to the way it was before if you do that.

I agree with Magic M about blades too heavily sealed.  I would not buy one and would rather it has no sealer at all.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AgentHEX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2015 at 4:40pm
The extra ply in 7-ply offensive blade over 5-ply ALL is maybe 0.5mm. So if you add 0.5mm of hard substance to each side it's no mystery how it ends up.

That's the point of my first reply above.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2015 at 8:13pm
wankhao

Your saving grace is the YEO has two Spruce inner plies, underneath the Walnut outer plies.

And fortunately for you; Spruce is a soft wood, that works well with harder woods than Walnut, for the outer plies; i.e. Rosewood and Ebony.

As such;  I think you've been lucky to still have a usable YEO, considering you've used normal varnish.

The increased speed you mention is due to the varnish being thick enough to harden the Walnut outer plies and alter the blade's playing characteristics.

You've noticed the blade's increased rebound; which helps explain why the blade plays faster and the longer trajectory allows you to land blocks closer to the bassline, than the middle of the table.

However; the downside of increasing a blade's speed is you've lost some of the blades original dwelltime, which makes it a bit harder to generate spin and you've also lost some of the blade's feel too.

You've also mentioned that you're thinking of adding more varnish, when you change rubbers and I would strongly advise against that; as you run the risk of wrecking the blade altogether.

Like other members have mentioned; an over varnished blade also reduces it's saleability should you decide to change blade too.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/01/2015 at 2:01am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I have seen an effect that big when someone used multiple coats of polyurethane, not with any normal sort of sealer.  And there is no going back to the way it was before if you do that.

I agree with Magic M about blades too heavily sealed.  I would not buy one and would rather it has no sealer at all.

... or was it an epoxy resin? 

The 10% value indeed seems like a huge effect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/01/2015 at 12:51pm
Originally posted by AgentHEX AgentHEX wrote:

The extra ply in 7-ply offensive blade over 5-ply ALL is maybe 0.5mm. So if you add 0.5mm of hard substance to each side it's no mystery how it ends up.

That's the point of my first reply above.


Of course. 0.5 mm of a varnish would render the blade illegal being a non-wood outer layer and being thicker than the maximum allowed non-wood reinforced layer.   Actually any sealant with a thickness that is measurable by ordinary means implemented by ITTF officials would probably be illegal since it might be considered a non-wood outer layer.

I use a wipe-on poly and other than a mild color shift towards yellow and the fact that water beads up on the surface it is hard to tell that the surface isn't just bare wood. I don't notice any playing difference.  There might be some, but it is slight.


Edited by wturber - 03/01/2015 at 12:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/01/2015 at 2:48pm
Hi Jay,

Outer veneers such as koto or American and European birch are especially prone to splintering when you remove a sheet of rubber, so I used to use Watco Danish Oil, available at an Ace Hardware store or a Sears Hardware outlet store in Columbus.  The oil could be easily wiped on to the blade with a chamois or cheesecloth, and the handle if you wanted, dried quickly, and did a very nice job of protecting your blade.  There was no appreciable gain in speed that I could notice, however.

My Master Craftsman blades are sealed with a Tibhar sealant, as the outer veneer is I believe European birch.  Alas, no appreciable increase in speed from this sealant either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/01/2015 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I have seen an effect that big when someone used multiple coats of polyurethane, not with any normal sort of sealer.  And there is no going back to the way it was before if you do that.

I agree with Magic M about blades too heavily sealed.  I would not buy one and would rather it has no sealer at all.

... or was it an epoxy resin? 

The 10% value indeed seems like a huge effect.
  Definitely polyurethane, a couple of thick coats.  And maybe it was not a 10% increase in speed, but definitely a very large effect on how the blade felt and not a good one.  I think these other sealants that other people are mentioning would not be problematic.  I use hair spray on the wood each time I change the rubber, seems adequate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/02/2015 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by berndt_mann berndt_mann wrote:

Hi Jay,

Outer veneers such as koto or American and European birch are especially prone to splintering when you remove a sheet of rubber, so I used to use Watco Danish Oil, available at an Ace Hardware store or a Sears Hardware outlet store in Columbus.  The oil could be easily wiped on to the blade with a chamois or cheesecloth, and the handle if you wanted, dried quickly, and did a very nice job of protecting your blade.  There was no appreciable gain in speed that I could notice, however.

My Master Craftsman blades are sealed with a Tibhar sealant, as the outer veneer is I believe European birch.  Alas, no appreciable increase in speed from this sealant either.

I don't know what the outer plies on my el-cheap LKT Instincts that I used to use were.  But they are prone to splintering if not sealed.  My current blade is a Nittaku Resist with Willow outer plies.  It seems less prone to splintering, but I sealed it with wipe-on poly anyway and don't notice any change.

With blade sealing, less is generally better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AgentHEX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/02/2015 at 7:39pm
Originally posted by berndt_mann berndt_mann wrote:

Hi Jay,

Outer veneers such as koto or American and European birch are especially prone to splintering when you remove a sheet of rubber, so I used to use Watco Danish Oil, available at an Ace Hardware store or a Sears Hardware outlet store in Columbus.  The oil could be easily wiped on to the blade with a chamois or cheesecloth, and the handle if you wanted, dried quickly, and did a very nice job of protecting your blade.  There was no appreciable gain in speed that I could notice, however.

My Master Craftsman blades are sealed with a Tibhar sealant, as the outer veneer is I believe European birch.  Alas, no appreciable increase in speed from this sealant either.


Most oils aren't going to naturally polymerize and harden. Some finishes however do and that's what causes the speed increase. It's probably not 10%, but will mostly feel bit different which people attribute to significant changes.
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