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How does touching the net affect the spin? |
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Alqa 
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 Topic: How does touching the net affect the spin?Posted: 05/07/2015 at 7:22am |
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Hola all,
What is the effect of the net when the ball touches the net during the play: - effects on topspin? Heavy & light spin. - effects on backspin? Heavy & light spin. - effect on 100% clockwise spin? - effect on 50% back spin AND 50%clockwise spin? and any other similar variation - effect on dead ball? Any other thoughts on this are appreciated. |
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Stao
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Posted: 05/07/2015 at 7:46am |
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In my opinion the spin is not much affected at all. Maybe the spin is slightly reduced by the touch.
The main effect of the net is the reduction of the ball speed while mostly keeping its spin. The slower the ball the higher the effect on the receiving rubber (assuming the ball has the same spin) |
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NextLevel
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Posted: 05/07/2015 at 8:21am |
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What Stao said - *usually* slows the ball down while mostly keeping the spin, making the ball more loaded from a spin/speed ratio perspective.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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cole_ely
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Posted: 05/07/2015 at 8:38am |
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it just depends on how solidly you catch the net. It can take the spin off if you catch it pretty solid.
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Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
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vanjr
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Posted: 05/07/2015 at 9:12am |
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It should take off spin. However when I play the ball, I play topspin shots as if they have MORE spin. Not sure why but otherwise the ball goes long. Again, depending on how hard it hits the net and my opponents shot.
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Chicobo
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Posted: 05/07/2015 at 9:55am |
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I actually do the exact same thing - play net shots as if they have more topspin. My theory on why this is because a shot has a certain amount of total speed and spin. Hitting the net reduces the speed, thus will increase the spin keeping the total amount the same.
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cole_ely
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Posted: 05/07/2015 at 9:58am |
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yes, if the ball slows down with the same spin, then your next shot is going to have a lot of dwell on your racket and the topspin that is there will really take
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Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
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beeray1
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Posted: 05/07/2015 at 10:34am |
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It's depends on how it hits the net and at what pace, there's a lot of variables. I don't think it's feasible to read how the net changes the spin, but just read the bounce and play it with high percentage timing the best you can.
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cole_ely
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Posted: 05/07/2015 at 11:38am |
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usually you can see the spin pretty well when it comes off the net.
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Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
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Alqa
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Posted: 05/07/2015 at 12:12pm |
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Hmm, does that mean a slow backspin serve would drop down more vertical than faster backspin serve ( assuming the same amount of spin ) Also, does than mean a slower serve with side/under spin is more difficult to receive than fast serve with the same spin? |
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Alqa
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Posted: 05/07/2015 at 12:15pm |
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The answers provided got me a bit interested to know more, If the net does now affect the ball, how come the ball in topspin rally becomes sort of dead ball when touching the net most of the time?
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NextLevel
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Posted: 05/07/2015 at 12:45pm |
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If it hits the net hard, the spin may get killed and the ball will be dead If it hits the net softly, the speed is reduced and the spin is usually unaffected, so you need to adjust for high spin. Make sense? |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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NextLevel
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Posted: 05/07/2015 at 12:47pm |
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Higher spin/speed ratio means more extreme angles are required on passive strokes. The slower ball is heavier, but it can be controlled by an experienced opponent with ease. The faster ball may be lighter, but gives the opponent leas time to react. Fast with heavy spin is ideal unless you want to use timing to mess up your opponent. Edited by NextLevel - 05/07/2015 at 12:49pm |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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wturber
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Posted: 05/07/2015 at 3:06pm |
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Also, how hard or soft it impacts the net is affected by the net tension. I'd say that most nets I run across that haven't been set up with a height gauge or tension gauge are a bit loose. So a solid hit into the net near the ball's equator will put more net/string across a wider section of the ball and kill more spin. This is the kind of ball that we see that sits and "climbs" the net. Properly tensioned nets are more likely to produce a shorter duration, deflecting collision that scrubs off less spin. So you end up with a ball trajectory and spin combination that is unusual and generally harder to deal with.
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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Alqa
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Posted: 05/07/2015 at 10:16pm |
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Hmmm, Thanks, it does make sense now. I will pay extra attention on the spin when touching the net in my training session. |
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Alqa
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Posted: 05/07/2015 at 10:19pm |
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Interesting angle, that did not come to mind before. Thank you |
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Alqa
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Posted: 05/07/2015 at 10:27pm |
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Just so I make sure I'm on the same page, what is passive stroke exactly? Also, as an example: if the ball is traveling 100km/hour, with topspin let's say 20 rotation a second, and ( let's assume ) the proper angle to block it is 45 degree; What would be the approximate angle to block same rotation with slower speed? Will it be less or more than 45 degree ( open or close )? Also, what would be the angle to block faster ball with same rotation as the previous example? |
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NextLevel
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Posted: 05/07/2015 at 11:15pm |
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I play table tennis, not physics, so I can't do the math.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Alqa
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Posted: 05/09/2015 at 5:13pm |
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Haha, good one. |
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Alqa
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Posted: 05/09/2015 at 5:17pm |
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Anyone got an answer for the example above? Is that even possiple to have same spin but faster ball? |
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NextLevel
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Posted: 05/10/2015 at 4:19am |
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Same spin but faster ball means more power. Again racket angles are primarily about spin, cushioning is primarily about speed - you can take spin and speed (Well instantaneous velocity actually) as vectors that describe the ball. Again the specific numbers are a waste of time - the higher the topspin, the more closed the racket usually has to be, but again, this changes during ball flight.
There is a good article generally about blocking balls with heavy topspin on the thoughtsontabletennis blog. Maybe you can ask him your question.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Stao
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Posted: 05/10/2015 at 4:44am |
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yes the slower serve is more difficult to receive in terms of opening youre racket more to not hit the net.
that example is a bit complicated because the speed of the ball affects the receiving racket angle as well. But in general i would say for slower topspins with the same spin you have to close your racket angle more and block the ball more passively. |
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Alqa
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Posted: 05/11/2015 at 5:14am |
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"racket angles are primarily about spin, cushioning is primarily about speed" Thanks, that helps. |
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neutronbomb
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Posted: 05/14/2015 at 7:51am |
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A player at my club argued that when a topspin shot hits the net and nearly stops, that it adds spin to it because he usually hits it long. This is a very experienced and older player so I thought this conclusion was odd. A slow loop close to the net can have the same effect. Now that the ball is really close to the net and low, finding the perfect racket angle become even harder. Top chinese attackers even chop block really slow, short spinny loops or net spinners for this reason I believe.
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NextLevel
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Posted: 05/14/2015 at 8:34am |
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The conclusion isn't odd. The ball has slowed down more than the spin has been affected so most people underestimate the spin. It's not so much that spin has been added as that more speed than spin has been taken off.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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vanjr wrote: