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T05/MX-P vs Tenzone Ultra

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    Posted: 07/02/2015 at 10:37am
Could someone do a brief comparison between these three rubbers?

I can't find much info on Tenzone Ultra besides the generic TableTennisDaily video review, but I might consider purchasing it in future - how does it compare to rubbers such as T05 or MX-P?

Thanks  Wink


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2015 at 11:32am
TZU is one of my favorite last-gen ESNs.  Excellent rubber.

Compared to T05 it's harder (slightly in the sponge, more so in the topsheet).  A little faster, lower throw.  Very solid in comparison, far more linear and less sensitive to incoming spin.  Produces great spin on bigger strokes, but T05 has that easy grab at low speeds which is hard to find elsewhere.

Compared to MX-P...I'll have to work from memory here, it's been a while since I used MX-P.  TZU's topsheet is a little softer, but it's very marginal.  TZU is a little slower, bit easier to spin up with, but less effective at full pelt.

If you want to give TZU a try (it's a bit pricey to experiment) I can send you a sheet to test - red, 2.0mm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 4ugustu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2015 at 5:27pm
tzu has soft fell, less spin and less sensitive to incoming spin, speed is similar,  lower throw. Good for backhand. 

I basically said the same as AndySmith.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2015 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

TZU is one of my favorite last-gen ESNs.  Excellent rubber.

Compared to T05 it's harder (slightly in the sponge, more so in the topsheet).  A little faster, lower throw.  Very solid in comparison, far more linear and less sensitive to incoming spin.  Produces great spin on bigger strokes, but T05 has that easy grab at low speeds which is hard to find elsewhere.

Compared to MX-P...I'll have to work from memory here, it's been a while since I used MX-P.  TZU's topsheet is a little softer, but it's very marginal.  TZU is a little slower, bit easier to spin up with, but less effective at full pelt.

If you want to give TZU a try (it's a bit pricey to experiment) I can send you a sheet to test - red, 2.0mm.
Hey there, 

Thanks for the comparison, very detailed - and it's ok, I don't want to bother you with the hassle of sending over the rubber and the hassle of me sending the rubber back...

I think the Tenzone Ultra would be suited to my game as I despise blocking against higher level players with Tenergy. May I ask what blade you tested on, and whether it was the celluloid or plastic ball? I believe ALC and TZU will be sufficient enough for the plastic ball in max thickness.

Also, do you have any idea how the durability is? I play for about 5 hours a week and play tournaments once or twice a month.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2015 at 8:16pm
Avoid blocking - learn to counterlooping. It's the problem for getting to the next level. Don't try to use equipment to fix it.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2015 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Avoid blocking - learn to counterlooping. It's the problem for getting to the next level. Don't try to use equipment to fix it.

Of course - there are frequent situations however where blocking would be more appropriate than a counter loop, e.g. a heavy opening loop to the backhand. Long story short, Tenergy hinders myself more often than benefits in some match circumstances.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asifgunz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2015 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Avoid blocking - learn to counterlooping. It's the problem for getting to the next level. Don't try to use equipment to fix it.


+1


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2015 at 10:57pm
Smackdat, the heavier the spin, the greater the need to attack it to get better. I am going through these issues. Tenergy is a counterlooping machine. Use wrist action.

Blocking a loop is an invitation to a better player to cut your head off You have to attack their spin to make them take more risks.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/03/2015 at 5:22am
Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

TZU is one of my favorite last-gen ESNs.  Excellent rubber.

Compared to T05 it's harder (slightly in the sponge, more so in the topsheet).  A little faster, lower throw.  Very solid in comparison, far more linear and less sensitive to incoming spin.  Produces great spin on bigger strokes, but T05 has that easy grab at low speeds which is hard to find elsewhere.

Compared to MX-P...I'll have to work from memory here, it's been a while since I used MX-P.  TZU's topsheet is a little softer, but it's very marginal.  TZU is a little slower, bit easier to spin up with, but less effective at full pelt.

If you want to give TZU a try (it's a bit pricey to experiment) I can send you a sheet to test - red, 2.0mm.
Hey there, 

Thanks for the comparison, very detailed - and it's ok, I don't want to bother you with the hassle of sending over the rubber and the hassle of me sending the rubber back...

I think the Tenzone Ultra would be suited to my game as I despise blocking against higher level players with Tenergy. May I ask what blade you tested on, and whether it was the celluloid or plastic ball? I believe ALC and TZU will be sufficient enough for the plastic ball in max thickness.

Also, do you have any idea how the durability is? I play for about 5 hours a week and play tournaments once or twice a month.

Technique and training issues aside, TZU is a great do-everything rubber and IMO makes everything a little easier but less dangerous than T05.  

Here is my own personal perspective.  In the real world, I have to balance improvement of skills and league performance, so I can't be trying to counterloop every ball while simultaneously struggling with blocking consistency for the sake of my own improvement while my team loses and we get relegated.  Not everyone will be in this position.  Perhaps some members here don't have weekly team commitments to consider and can be more selfish in their approach to things (not using selfish in a derogatory context here, just in a realistic one).

To be honest, TZU counters really well anyway, so I can't see the problem in having a steadier, less reactive rubber while working on counterlooping technique at the same time, if that means your league performance improves as a consequence.  This isn't trying to fix a technique issue as much as picking an efficient and effective setup to achieve your goals.  But I'm not you SmackDAT, so I don't know what your personal situation is.

Back OT.  I've used TZU on a lot of blades over the years.  Boll ALC, Hypertouch, Sammy Pure Wood, Peter Pan, Rossi Emotion, Waldner Legend Carbon, lots I've probably forgotten, and currently on the Waldner Senso Carbon.  Recent months have been with the plastic ball.  With plastic, I find that the topsheet is a touch too hard to have the same feel when looping as with the cell ball, but it's definitely hard and fast enough to work really well regardless.  I'm finding that I play better with a soft topsheet/hard sponge arrangement (currently Omega V Asia) with plastic at the moment.  I still use TZU on a backup blade when I have to use cell in a league match, and I'm still very tempted to stick with it for the future regardless.

The only issues are weight (it's pretty heavy, but what isn't these days?), and durability.  The topsheet does wear quite quickly in comparison with some of the more recent releases.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/03/2015 at 6:08am
Sure, if he is sure TZU will solve the problem, he should go for it. Maybe I am.overestimating his level or the level of the better players.What is far more likely to happen is that the better players will still beat him with the same tactics and he will have to find a technical solution. You block spin drives, but you need to attack slow spin. The illusion is believing you will be fine if you return the first ball. TZU and Tenergy 05 are in the same class IMO so I don't think.either confers an advantage for blocking heavy topspin.

Even if a 2400 player blocks my first slow topspin, I expect to win the point. It is the counterattack that prevents me from doing it if I can always get in that topspin.

Edited by NextLevel - 07/03/2015 at 6:14am
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/03/2015 at 8:00am
I'm not sure if you're overestimating his level - I've got no idea what it is anyway.  You seem to be underestimating his ability to ask a suitable question about his personal experiences though.  This helps me to understand where he's coming from - 

Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

 Long story short, Tenergy hinders myself more often than benefits in some match circumstances.

It's fine to advise that he avoids blocking, but we all have to block from time to time.  Relying on blocking to win the majority of your points is definitely a route to diminishing returns as the level goes up - even more so now that the plastic ball slows up in the air so much.  But I don't get that impression from the original question.

When forced to block against better players, he doesn't like the way T05 behaves.  Block less is certainly an option, but might not be practical for any number of reasons.  Switch to a less jumpy and reactive rubber is another option, but certainly risks wasting money and adjustment time.  Such is life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/03/2015 at 10:38am
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

I'm not sure if you're overestimating his level - I've got no idea what it is anyway.  You seem to be underestimating his ability to ask a suitable question about his personal experiences though.  This helps me to understand where he's coming from - 

Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

 Long story short, Tenergy hinders myself more often than benefits in some match circumstances.

It's fine to advise that he avoids blocking, but we all have to block from time to time.  Relying on blocking to win the majority of your points is definitely a route to diminishing returns as the level goes up - even more so now that the plastic ball slows up in the air so much.  But I don't get that impression from the original question.

When forced to block against better players, he doesn't like the way T05 behaves.  Block less is certainly an option, but might not be practical for any number of reasons.  Switch to a less jumpy and reactive rubber is another option, but certainly risks wasting money and adjustment time.  Such is life.

Sure.  I do have personal experience with this so I speak from it.  Switching to a less reactive spinny rubber is unlikely to solve the real problem but it might.  If it doesn't, at least he is now aware of that possibility.   For all I know, TZU might be a better punch blocking rubber than T05 and that works as well.  After all, I play choppers with one rubber and play loopers with another.  So I know what it is like being comfortable playing in a certain way with one rubber vs. another.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/03/2015 at 11:04am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Sure.  I do have personal experience with this so I speak from it.  Switching to a less reactive spinny rubber is unlikely to solve the real problem but it might.  If it doesn't, at least he is now aware of that possibility.   For all I know, TZU might be a better punch blocking rubber than T05 and that works as well.  After all, I play choppers with one rubber and play loopers with another.  So I know what it is like being comfortable playing in a certain way with one rubber vs. another.

I'd hate to be switching rubbers all the time.  Would mess my game up.  One setup for life.

...

It's all about balance.  You gain some attributes, you lose some others.  IIRC SmackDAT used MX-P for quite a while, so he'll likely know what to expect in broad terms with a switch like this.
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