Loop-kill against Block (the video)

Finally managed to bet some video of me looping blocks.

In the video I am doing a drill where I hit 2 "normal" loops against a block and then hitting a "loopkill" against the third block.   There are about 6 of these 3-ball combinations in this video.

I am really embarrassed to post this video.  After seeing it I realize that my looping form has reverted back to what it was about 3 yrs ago.  I  worked for about a year to correct the form and in video at the end of that year I was starting to look very similar to most of the instructional videos I found on line.  Now I am back to a set of totally incorrect mechanics.   There are so many things wrong I will not try to go into details.

Needless to say, I need to work on correcting the very fundamentals of my forehand topspin before I even start to think about different types of loops.

You all have been so helpful that I thought I did owe it to you to get a look at what I was actually doing.  A note of warning.  If you are a visual learning (tend to pick up and copy details of technique from watching others) please do not view this video.  The damage to your game might be irreparable.

Mark

PS - I tried to use the "insert movie" function, but I kept getting an error message.  I selected youtube as type and "edUYIOkptg" as the name.  Not sure what I really should have done.

Last night I got to spend some time working against the robot.  Think I got pretty much back to the "good" form I thought I had been using.  I am going to try avoid playing matches for a while to see if I can cement that form in place. 

Definitely got a lot more weight transfer (mostly from rotation) than in video.  Also swing plane right at contact was much more forward.  In the video you can see that right at contact I was changing the swing plane to a much more vertical one than I initially started the swing.  Result of the changes was a much faster "normal" loop.  In fact, the "normal" loop with the good form was almost as fast as the loop-kill I was hitting in the video.  I did not do much experimenting with blade angle or swing plane and I did not try any loop-kills with the new "good" form.  I will stick with the basics for a while.

I will post another video when I get a chance to get filmed at a similar angle so the "good" form can be compared to the awful mess in the initial video in this thread.

Mark

The answer is depressing given how hard he works - I will let Mark tell it.

To all,

I agree on everything you guys mentioned.   However, I keep slipping back into these bad mechanics repeatedly.  I think I have found a fundamental error early in the stroke that actually forces me into most of the rest of the problems. 

In the video I am initiating my body rotation (for the backswing) by dramatically bending my left knee forward and to the right and at the same time straightening my right leg slightly.  This is just the opposite kind of knee action I saw in the "Modern Topspin Strokes" videos from Butterfly that NextLevel linked to in my first loop-kill post.

This move causes my left shoulder to drop (bad).   It narrows the arc of my turn so that my arm moves back and up instead of rotating out to the side.  To get the racket out to the side I over rotate my shoulders.  That is my shoulders are much more open given how far back I take the racket than they would be if I rotated properly.  Combination of left shoulder dip and arm moving back and up is that the racket completely closes (face pointing down to the floor).   My forward swing  has to go down first then back up and I have to coordinate that with getting the blade face pointing at the proper angle.  The down first motion combined with not using my waist to rotate back means I  start the swing with my arm instead of rotating with the hips.  The swing up to contact is about 90% arm and the shoulder rotation only happens after contact.  The up then down motion I need to use also causes the swing at contact to be more vertical than I think and further limits the amount of speed I generate on the shot.

I did a little shadow stroking and when I start my backswing by turning at my waist and making sure my right shoulder dips slightly I get a completely different looking stroke.  The right knee bends and the left knee stays about the same or straightens slightly.  The racket moves out to the side of my body and the blade angle stays almost neutral instead of having the face point at the floor.   The racket does not rotate nearly as far back.  Instead it stops with the arm and tip of the racket pointing along a line pointing just a little backward from parallel to the table.  The forward swing is suddenly linear (not down then up).  It is easy to start the forward motion with my hips (since they were cocked like a spring when I used them to initiate the turn back).  I finish with the racket in the more conventional salute slightly across middle of body position.    All this happens almost automatically if I just change from bending the left knee a lot at start of swing to rotating out and back using my waist at the start of the swing.

Of course I could be complete "full of it" as we say here in Teas.  But that is my analysis.  Hopefully I really did find a root cause that was leading to a lot of other problems.

Mark

I would suggest keeping your left hand up with the racquet, then use the left hand to point to the contact point of the ball. This help make sure you're rotating rather than just using your right arm. 

The steps you described in the "golden triangle" thread was helpful - I think it would help you.

Another suggestion is probably take a step back, this should give you more time to use the body to generate power. Seems like you're a bit rushed in executing the strokes. 

Your game looks pretty good. 

Good luck

Jrscatman,

Look more closely at the video at 0.25 or 0.5 speed.  There is some really awful technique on display there.  I thought I had left it behind, but it just keeps rearing its ugly head again and again.

Mark

adhering to the "must loop 2 then loopkill the 3rd" - makes it awkward

i think it's more like....you want to be able to loopkill when the situation presents itself - not only on #3, because in the video - sometimes the #3 ball would be a horrible ball to perform that particular shot

so, maybe:  it's more like....start with loop loop loop, loopkill when you get a nice one....then as you become more comfortable, you may settle into a pattern as you are more comfortable

(not at all attacking, just hopefully giving some helpful advice)

:)

The reset after 2nd loop needs larger/quicker foot movement and a bigger backswing. Need to be ready earlier to make bigger stroke. 

This is not unusual, especially for adult learners who have grooved in bad technique over many years - I know I qualify.  Usually, I find that tying the changes to something different (change in finishing position and contact point) tend to help so that your body can see them as completely different rather than more of the same.  But reversion to old habits can rarel be fully shaken.  IT's a major difference between people who always grew up learning the right thing and people who are trying to change.

That said, when doing something like this, you need to review your video in real time.  Doing it when you get home defeats the purpose.

You really should stop trying to "finish" the ball. The finishing FH loop drive (mid table position) requires a lot of forward body weight transfer which you may not be physically able to sustain (it's tough on the body!). 

Your main issue is insufficient amount of spin causing inconsistency. I think your body mechanics look fine, the stiffness is caused by your grip! You do have quite an extremely FH biased grip. Try to lower the position of your forefinger on the bat, and drop your bat until the bat is in a straight line with your forearm. This will instantly provide you with a lot more spin to work with and up your consistency tremendously.

Consistent looping is fine and will get you a lot more points compared to trying to finish balls that are not so weak. Loop drives are normally used to finish semi-high and not so deep balls which you are in position for. If you don't have CNT level of physical fitness, it is very hard to loop drive the ball mid table.