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Golden triangle...?

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orionilian View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12/03/2015 at 10:50am
I need help...
What is means the principle "golden triangle" (for forehand shots) ?
Thank you in advance
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cole_ely View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2015 at 11:19am
I'm not sure if this is what you're after, but I read the book PATT.

The author (who posts here sometimes I think) talked about putting your hands together in front of you like you're praying.  The resulting triangle has your forehand right in front of your body at about the correct place to try to take all your forehand shots.
Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.
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mjamja View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2015 at 12:41pm
I think it is a little more complicated that that.

1. Take your normal stance or Fh stance if you change stance for Fh and Bh.

2. Put your arms out as Cole described.

3. Now rotate at the waist as you would if taking a backswing.

4. When the palm of the hitting hand is perpendicular to the direction you want to hit, the tips of the fingers marks the best contact point for the ball.  Note: This will give you slightly different contact points for hitting wide cross-court, to mid-line, or hitting down-the-line.

This method can also help your determine how your basic stance should change as you move from the Fh side of the table to the Bh side. 

1. Find you contact point (1-4 above) for hitting to the Fh corner while standing in your normal Fh to Fh location.

2. Without moving your hands or rotating your upper body move to the Bh side of the table as if you where hitting a Fh from the Bh corner.  Keep your feet with the same relative offset (normally Fh side foot back) as before.

3. Note that now your right palm is pointed well outside the Fh corner.  Move your feet (Bh foot forward and Fh foot backwards) to open your stance until your right palm is again pointing at the Fh corner.

4. Your are now in the correct alignment for playing from the Bh side.  Having the different foot alignment means that you use the same contact point relative to your body for a shot to the Fh corner whether you are playing from the Fh side of the table or from the Bh side.  Having the same contact point helps your timing.

5. You can do the same exercise moving from normal Fh position to the wide Fh position.  In that case you have to move the Bh foot back and the Fh foot forward (closing your stance) to get the proper alignment to the Fh corner.

An even more advanced technique is learning to always re-positioning the feet so that there is only one contact point regardless of where I want to hit.  For example if I am doing a Fh to Fh cross-court I would rotate my feet slightly open from my ready stance during the backswing.  If I wanted to hit a ball down-the-line to the Bh corner I would rotate my feet more open than before during the backswing so that I still contacted the ball in the same point relative to my body, but now my adjusted body position makes that shot go to the Bh corner.  Stellan Bengston talked about doing this at a clinic I attended.

I have difficulty just getting a basic reposition when I move from Fh side of the table to Bh side of the table.  So I have not been able to implement Stellan's technique which involves much more awareness of where you are and what shot you want to hit.  His technique does have great benefits to your timing (have only one contact point relative to your body.  And it helps to disguise where you are hitting the ball since the table blocks the opponent's view of your foot change and there is not the clue of hitting the ball in front of your body (cross-court) versus hitting the ball behind your body (down-the-line).

Note: When I use the term contact point I am really talking about a contact line since the height of the ball will vary from shot to shot.  If you have really good footwork you will not only move left and right, but move in and out to position this line at the top of the bounce (or whatever bounce position you prefer).  I am so far away from being able to do that I would need a passport to get there.

Mark



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cole_ely View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2015 at 5:40pm
I just think of it like a batter.  You want to contact the ball right in front of your body so you don't lose power nor hook/slice it.  I've been trying to do it, but a lot of people tell me that my stance was too open.

That day with Stellan, though, he commented that he liked it.  
Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2015 at 6:18pm
Cole,

The problem I have seen with saying "hit in front of your body" is a lot of people reference that to standing in their ready position with their shoulders parallel to the end of the table.  Then it makes no sense.   

You want to "hit in front of your body" after your upper body has rotated into the backswing position.  The more open your ready stance and the more body rotation you have in your ready position the more you can take your ready position and use the triangle from that position.  If I understand Don Olsen correctly, PATT recommends a ready position with a very open stance and the upper body already rotated back slightly.  For a Fh there is no backward movement (no really backswing).  You just set the racket height and go forward.  For a Bh you actually have to rotate slightly forward before taking the stroke.  If you set up in a PATT ready position, the triangle from the ready positon, points to the perfect spot.  If you set up in a more conventional stance or actually open your stance from ready position for Fh's, then using the triangle from the ready position has you hitting the ball much closer to the edge of the table than is optimal.

Stellan actually said he did not like the triangle idea.  He suggested envisioning a vertical plane parallel to the end of the table just in front of your Fh toe.  You then make sure you contact the ball when it is in that plane.  The amount you open/close your stance changes where the ball goes (cross-court vs down-the-line).  I am not quick enough with my feet to do that so I still rely on moving the contact slightly forward or slightly more rearward to move the ball from a cross-court return to a down-the-line return.

At least that is what I remember from the clinic and the exchanges I had with Don on another thread.

Mark



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