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Technique is not everything if you want to improve

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CraneStyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2016 at 11:12am
@APW46 - Sorry to bring equipment into it...

You are probably at-one with your setup. Whilst I'm searching for "Nirvana"...

So when we see the good older guy playing with 'Old Stiga' it can't be ignored...

Do most of your successful peers use Allround blades..?

It would be nice to know...

Edited by CraneStyle - 02/04/2016 at 11:13am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2016 at 11:48am
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

And why would you deemphasize technique when technique itself is an integral part of having a good game? You would forego studying how to loop and instead just resolve to hitting balls? When one hits the ball thick through the sponge when he needs to brush the ball in a situation where amateur level and lower level players tend to push more, wouldn't ball contact be important and a part of basic technique that the player needs? If a player has limited time and resources in order for him to improve he can choose to just cocentrate on other areas, but is it the best choice? NOPE.


At this point, it makes sense to discuss your specific experiences. I am an adult learner and I can discuss my experiences with technical changes and my observation of its impact on others. You simply don't seem to understand the major issues involved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2016 at 11:59am
I do understand everything I am just saying the long hard way in the long run is still the best way to improve and not discarding 1 area or aspect of the game.
There are technical changes and modifications for a stroke or technique because of the factor of age, flexibility, etc but bottomline is technique improvement should never be deemphasized.
My specific experience is that if you teach a person how to loop and contact the ball properly even with advanced age, improving his gameplay will be less harder than not knowing to loop at all and just hitting underspin balls.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2016 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:


My specific experience is that if you teach a person how to loop and contact the ball properly even with advanced age, improving his gameplay will be less harder than not knowing to loop at all and just hitting underspin balls.

 I am not advocating that at all, I did say, once the basic strokes are to a useable standard, meaning not striving for international standard technique at the expense of learning how to win.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2016 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:


My specific experience is that if you teach a person how to loop and contact the ball properly even with advanced age, improving his gameplay will be less harder than not knowing to loop at all and just hitting underspin balls.

 I am not advocating that at all, I did say, once the basic strokes are to a useable standard, meaning not striving for international standard technique at the expense of learning how to win.

Everyone has said this, and I even went out of my way to chastise someone who I know was trying to argue that his bad technique is compensated by his supposedly good game reading skills, but yogi_Bear is not reading what anyone is saying.

No one posting here in support of APW46, including myself, would teach anyone bad technique.  But I have students and/or people asking questions in their 50s and 60s and 70s, some learning for the first time, some with ambitious goals, and once they can hit the ball well and with good basic form, I am not going to push them to bend their knees all the time or look like Ma Long.  Doing so would injure some of them, though others can take it.  It is time to teach them how to set up points, how to make the opponent move, how to read spin, how to think about serving, the importance of blocking etc. Technique supports all those things, but the goal is never to strive for perfect or world class technique.  In the long run, as I am there to coach them in person, the technique is largely developed to be effective in the typical situations they will face.  


Edited by NextLevel - 02/04/2016 at 5:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2016 at 7:35pm
I never said that somebody is teaching bad technique. What I was emphasizing and I am trying to point is that one should continually im prove his technique and not not de emphasize it. Again, you are the one missing the point. I have reiterated that the forms and basic strokes reach a certain acceptable range but you continue to make an example of world class players' extreme wide stances or swings in order to support your claims and yet I am disagreeing because one doesnt have to have a world class player form just to have a good technique. I also said if you carefully read my post that age and flexibility among other factors modify the stroke and technique but they can be done in an accetable level. Why disregard technique or stroke enhancement when you can develop both at the same time. It is a matter of training yourself because I have seen a lot of players who have no training but due to their principle of learning as much as they can they develop acceptable strokes while developing good gameplay. Sone took a lot of time some didn't. I think you are the one who didn't get my arguement and point and no experience wise these players do not emulate ma long.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2016 at 7:50pm
I think in the end we have to agree to disagree. You and apw want people to just concentrate more on strat and gameplay more while I advocate on the traditional way of perpetual development of strokes and techniques while developing gameplay at the same time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2016 at 8:54pm
Anyone care to give my friend some pointers to beat this dude?  He spares no expense to train with former provincial players in Shenzhen, as such technique shouldn't be an issue.



Edited by zeio - 02/04/2016 at 8:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2016 at 1:10am
He should play the guy on the other table instead.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2016 at 3:02pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Anyone care to give my friend some pointers to beat this dude?  He spares no expense to train with former provincial players in Shenzhen, as such technique shouldn't be an issue.

 I just loved watching the quality serves from both players, haven't got a clue who they are, but they are fantastic players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The soul of rock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2016 at 5:04pm
The better guy is Wong Chun Tin, probably in World top 20 now already.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2016 at 5:30pm
I think bribery is his best shot at winning that match.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WingTT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2016 at 6:02pm
Your friend should not feel too bad, Wong Chun Ting is ITTF world ranking 12 right now. Some pointers for your friend - he is popping up too many service returns with his push. Flip or use softer hands. He is rushing a lot of shots trying to put them away but netting them. Go for more spin and safety like Xu Xin and back up after that for a counter looping game. Footwork is a bit weak - didn't see much of that Chinese style hop hop after each shot to get back into ready. Not enough leg muscles :>.  A lot of his serves are getting attacked outright. He might want to serve a bit shorter and slower and see if that gives him some opportunities.


Edited by WingTT - 02/05/2016 at 6:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2016 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Anyone care to give my friend some pointers to beat this dude?  He spares no expense to train with former provincial players in Shenzhen, as such technique shouldn't be an issue.
clip
... and thus technique should not be an issue...(?)  From the previous post it comes that technique can always be improved. I would (humbly) add that playing such a high World-ranked player is already a recognition in itself. Perhaps it would be nice to see this gentleman being a little more serious in cases when he commits a relatively easy mistake that gets punished. Don't stick your tongue out...


Edited by JacekGM - 02/05/2016 at 8:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2016 at 11:11pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Anyone care to give my friend some pointers to beat this dude?  He spares no expense to train with former provincial players in Shenzhen, as such technique shouldn't be an issue.

Those guys are USATT 1100 in Bay Area at best...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2016 at 12:03am
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Anyone care to give my friend some pointers to beat this dude?  He spares no expense to train with former provincial players in Shenzhen, as such technique shouldn't be an issue.

Those guys are USATT 1100 in Bay Area at best...
LOL Wish I had thought of that post.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2016 at 10:55am
slevin for the GOLD!!!Clap
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