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Shameless Lubomir Jancarik

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zeio View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2016 at 6:20pm
Believe it or not.  A Chinese netizen forewarned LSW on DN's potential (ab)use of the injury timeout before the final, citing that in the previous match against Mu Zi, Ding Ning would keep rubbing her shoulder when losing but stopped when winning.

BTW, check out the Japan Open 2015, which was right after the Suzhou WTTC.  DN looked completely fine in the quarterfinal against Ishikawa but somehow wasn't as healthy in the semifinal against Chen Meng.


Edited by zeio - 05/04/2016 at 6:57pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2016 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Believe it or not.  A Chinese netizen forewarned...
 Not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2016 at 7:05pm
The screenshot clearly shows EC rolling his ankle.  There can be no doubt, no question that EC injures himself.  If Jancarik had rolled his ankle like that, he would have stopped play too.  End of story on that score.

Did the extended break alter the dynamics of the match?  Undoubtedly.  The one thing V_t_c says that is worth noting is just how momentum was changed, and Jancarik suffered not just from the injury time but also from the net point.  That is nothing more than bad luck.  It happens to us all the time.  Momentum changes.  That's a fact of life.  No doubt there have been lots of occasions when Jancarik has benefitted from a momentum change.  Suck it up, princess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2016 at 7:15pm
On a related note, Kong Linghui sprained his ankle in the final against Waldner at the Sydney Olympics.  Afterward, he said he hid it from Waldner thinking it would give him a mental advantage if he knew about it.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2016 at 8:10pm
That screenshot looks like that rolled ankle hurt like hell.

And I already posted what the ITTF rule is on an injury.  You have up to 10 minutes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2016 at 8:38pm
In my experience, shots I miss hurt more than most I make when injured. It may be psychological, but I thought it had more to do with the muscles not gettijf the contact needed to swing properly when missing. Of course, as long as I win I can handle the ridicule easily.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2016 at 9:36pm
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

There is no excuse for Lubomir folks. He is terrible. 


So?
Recently I cannot post other than by quoting others, I also cannot edit my posts. Oh, My...TT...
Anyways, do we know the whereabouts of the Chtechtenine - Jancarik match?
To me, from the video clip the atmosphere felt really hostile, the fans were silent/nonexistent(?), the umpire was silent, the ball was passed very disrespectfully, the looks were antagonizing, the serves were delayed...
I do not think the break Chtechtenine took was too long at all. In the match he was doing well, his opponent played right into his strengths. Jancarik lost it totally and let us hope it will never happen to him like that. 
As for Jim's TT chess comment, I would say that higher level chess players do not sacrifice a piece for two pawns just for psychological advantage reasons alone, unless in a real dire straits situation. Bobby did sacrifice a Bishop for two in the match against Boris, but that was an entirely different story altogether. Move like that has to be premeditated, and as such it typically requires a long calculation time at the board for the one sacrificing the piece, yet time is a very precious commodity in a chess game. Of course bizarre exceptions do happen.
The Ding Nin - LSW match... I saw it asap, I think LSW was under some additional stress even before the incident happened, and then she just could not carry her game on. A little like the recent Jun Mizutani vs Xu Xin 10:4 in the seventh situation, although I am not sure what was bothering LSW. Who knows...
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2016 at 10:19pm
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:


To me, from the video clip the atmosphere felt really hostile, the fans were silent/nonexistent(?), the umpire was silent, the ball was passed very disrespectfully, the looks were antagonizing, the serves were delayed...


Yeah.  None of it was really that big of a deal.  The atmosphere didn't seem hostile to me, but did seem sterile and "matter of fact."

I think Jancarik clearly played the weaker match overall and was more mentally fragile about things like nets and edges.  He banged the table violently after one edge.  And that makes me wonder if there even was an umpire.  So no surprise that he acted up a bit at the end.  If only that would be the worst behavior we ever see from an athlete.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor_the_cleaner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2016 at 11:20pm
i saw one tabletennista one of the chinese coaches mentioned that he felt sorry for LSW because the the timeout broke her spirit. He didn't outright accuse DN, it was more like blaming the accident like it's nobody's fault. But I believe in CNT it is a law never to badmouth anybody, regardless of whether you are right or not, so to me even that felt as much as a coach can say without direct scandal. LSW should have cho-ed loudly on every point after the injury to state that she doesn't give a sh1t. Look how LXX handled her tears in London!

Back to this match, i don't know what chichoficho's deal is. Maybe he has some personal connection to the old chopper. Definitely this 'incident' got severely overblown here. Guy was out of luck and he let a few words out, not even loud voice, really nothing much. You can see people flipping tables, throwing rackets, screaming (for real) and all kinds of stuff. Like wturber said - if only that would be the worst behavior we ever see from an athlete..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2016 at 11:45pm
You and Jay raise a good point, V_t_c.  I have personally witnessed cadet players throwing tantrums after their kindly parents have chewed them out for losing a match their parents thought they should have won, juniors CHO!ing at the top of their adolescent lungs after every point they win and every point their opponent loses, then giving said opponent a bad-ass junior glare after dancing merrily around their side of the table.

I've also seen near fistfights between adults in unumpired matches over alleged illegal serves or cheating on the score.  I've heard cursing in several languages, including some I somewhat understood--Chinese, Russian, German, Spanish, Italian, and especially English.  I've yet to see any player flipping a table, though I have seen racket throwing, usually into the offender's gear bag, and breaking one's racket over one's knee.

Then of course there is the grudging palm wipe or court walk off after playing a crappy match.  And who can forget Exhibition Mode, which one player who is hopelessly outgunned goes into, lobbing every ball and standing like a whupped puppy when it is smashed by him (almost always a him, though female players are not entirely immune to inappropriate behavior).  Faking injuries (Ding Ning?) if you're not really injured to throw off your opponent's rhythm also isn't considered a sporting thing to do.


Edited by berndt_mann - 05/04/2016 at 11:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2016 at 5:35am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Here is what ITTF says in their latest Handbook for Match Officials

13.5 Injury
13.5.1 If, owing to accident or illness, a player is unable to continue the umpire must report
immediately to the referee. The referee may authorise an emergency suspension of play
for the player to receive treatment or to recover by resting, provided he or she is
satisfied that the break in continuity will not unfairly affect an opponent and that the
player will be able to resume play within a reasonably short time. The timekeeper
should time the suspension from the time when the referee is called, not from the time
he or she arrives at the playing area.
13.5.2
No interval can be allowed where the disability is due to illness or unfitness that was
present or to be expected at the start of the match, or to effects such as exhaustion
resulting from the way in which play has proceeded. If an interval is granted, it should
be as short as possible and not longer than 10 minutes, but if anyone in the playing
area is bleeding, play must not be resumed until all traces of blood have been removed.
13.5.3
Once a player has been granted an interval for recovery from injury, normally he or she
should be allowed no further such interval during that match. Exceptionally, where the
first interval was very short, another brief interval may be allowed for treatment
provided that it is not likely to be prejudicial to the opponent and that the total period
for which play is suspended during the match does not exceed 10 minutes.
13.5.4
If a player
with
a disability
is unable to play temporarily due to the nature of his/her
disability or condition, the referee may, after consulting a medical cl
assifier or doctor at
the competition, allow a medical recovery time of the shortest practical duration, but in
no circumstances more than 10 minutes.

Thanks for posting that Baal.  In the match I saw, it was definitely done IMHO to break Assar's stride and get some coaching.  Like the Ding Ning/LSW match, I think.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2016 at 8:10am
They played against each other in mid March. Jancarik got schlonged in that game too


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2016 at 9:05am
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

do we know the whereabouts of the Chtechtenine - Jancarik match?
To me, from the video clip the atmosphere felt really hostile, the fans were silent/nonexistent(?), the umpire was silent

I'm surprised nobody seems to know about this.  Over at ooakforum there are lots of references to it, but no one thread dedicated to it alone.  I know I read somewhere about the series' setup but it's buried too deep for me to locate it now.

The competition is played basically in front of the camera.  No crowd.  I think the only people present apart from the players and umpire are the other participants in the competition.  Therefore, no fans, no atmosphere, nothing but what you see on the screen.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2016 at 11:44am
Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

They played against each other in mid March. Jancarik got schlonged in that game too



Yes, if by that you mean beaten badly.

One guy I know who played EC some years ago in the worlds said that he has tremendous and very deceptive spin variations on his forehand chop, and you can see that when Jancarik plays him that he repeatedly misses because he misjudges that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2016 at 2:39pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

They played against each other in mid March. Jancarik got schlonged in that game too



Yes, if by that you mean beaten badly.

One guy I know who played EC some years ago in the worlds said that he has tremendous and very deceptive spin variations on his forehand chop, and you can see that when Jancarik plays him that he repeatedly misses because he misjudges that.


True that. I read opinions of two high level players (world's top 100) on Evgeny's game and they said they believed that as a classic defense player (almost no attack even when the ball seems to be pretty high up, ready for him to pounce) he perhaps had no equals in the world for the last 15-20 years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2016 at 2:49pm
No one has mentioned how this makes them want to try classic defense....so I will. I ordered some thin, tacky rubber for my FH just to occasionally do a club match in the beautiful style. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2016 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

do we know the whereabouts of the Chtechtenine - Jancarik match?
To me, from the video clip the atmosphere felt really hostile, the fans were silent/nonexistent(?), the umpire was silent

I'm surprised nobody seems to know about this.  Over at ooakforum there are lots of references to it, but no one thread dedicated to it alone.  I know I read somewhere about the series' setup but it's buried too deep for me to locate it now.

The competition is played basically in front of the camera.  No crowd.  I think the only people present apart from the players and umpire are the other participants in the competition.  Therefore, no fans, no atmosphere, nothing but what you see on the screen.  

Aha! So there was something out of the ordinary there... In that case, maybe spectators help diffuse conflicts?
Tassie, thank you very much for the very helpful link. 
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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