Guess The Ratings - I Disgust Myself

Probably 1900 for you and a bit more for your opponent, but that could really be - as we all know - significantly off the mark.

Here is the real question - why does he serve long into your backhand all the frigging time, even after that serve gets constantly attacked and often killed?

Maybe Liu wanted practice at blocking or countering, or maybe he wanted find a spot where NL would attack and be not much better than 50% since Liu knows he can block, maybe he did that to make us ask on the forum... maybe Liu doesn't like moving in and out of the table.

Your probably 2000 plus and your opponent is around the same. Just a word of wisdom. You don't beat medium pips players like that on fast loops or speed. You beat them on heavy spin and placement. Also you need to serve top spin serves to your opponent. Those are a nightmare to most medium pips players. Honestly you could back off and lob to your opponent and still beat him. Medium pips have no speed. And especially with the new plastic ball, it is stupidity to play medium pips. Less sink and slower ball gives opponents more time.

Opponent around 2000. Hard to say because most of his points came from you missing. He just blocked and kept the balls in play.

i wouldn't be disgusted if I could hit BHs like yours...

you just need to integrate it better with your FH.

smackman wrote: with these sort of matches it will often come down to tactics some luck and being prepared to move  firstly If someone was whipping winners against my serves I would not serve there at all or at least add more spin or mix up the service length, but then again NL you have talked about your service improvement but in the points I watched you did basically the same backhand serve all the time (was that on purpose?)

Yes, it was deliberate. I have played the same opponent 4 or maybe 5 times and have beaten him 2 or 3 of those times, and lost twice. I posted the match from the prior week so people can contrast and see that I usually win the point against him with one loop. Usually, against someone like him, the risk of using a forehand serve from my usual forehand serving position is recovery for a ball I have not practiced attacking. If I play him next week, I will likely loosen my strategic reins a little and go for more serve diversity (still mostly no spin but will throw in top per the recommendation of macpoddy) and challenge myself to recover better to the ball.  Usually, I don't put too much into serves if I think I can win the rally relatively easily.

I will post a match which I had no serious chance of winning so you can contrast the serve variety, which is closer to what I use vs double inverted players with a bias towards by backhand serve.  American players will be familiar with the opponent:

Edited by NextLevel - 01/08/2015 at 8:51am

heavyspin wrote: After watching the match, I am convinced that neither of you can beat #1000 in France.

I probably can't beat #1000 in the US either... Would be really sad for US table tennis if I could...

If I have to guess, you both are around 1800 range in US rating scale.  NL, your BH is at a higher level.  But your FH is a bit not consistent especially on the looping area and your short game on pushes on FH can still use some practices on reading spin.  If I play you, I will serve short under spin and no spin to your FH all the time.  Your long serve is very effective when you mix between top and back spin.  Your opponent seems to have trouble adjusting to the variation.  So keep that up.

aroonkl wrote: Opponent around 2000. Hard to say because most of his points came from you missing. He just blocked and kept the balls in play. For you, I would say: You got solid BH. I would say BH 2050, FH 1900. There is nothing wrong with your FH stroke. I think you stand  favor to BH. By standing too square to table, when the balls come to FH, you did not have proper transfer of your weight and balance to hit. Lot of ball went pass your optimum zone (behind lateral of you  body or you have to lift your shoulder to hit the balls.) If you change your stance, adjust to transfer of weight/rotate your hip when hit FH. You would gain power and "consistence". =You might not see this laggy much when you play with normal player. But with pip penholders, they rush you more with theirs block.= =Also take this comment with grains of salt. I am not a certified coach. .=

Pretty much exactly what I would have said regarding the FH mechanics. I think you have a tendency to not rotate and hit the forehand stroke across your body instead of forewards / upwards. It's particularly pronounced when you have less time (e.g. against a block) and better when you have time e.g. against a push.

The stance (right foot back a bit) will allow the rotation which will fix the arm swing path (and give you a fraction more time against a faster ball because your contact will probably be very slightly later)

By the way, either you look very good for your age or I am thinking of somebody else ... I thought you said you were about 60 in one of your previous posts!?



Edited by ttTurkey - 01/08/2015 at 9:49am

I think NL played a very good game, don't forget his opponent plays with MP, if NL did not put pressure right from the start, I think the other guy will have a better game .  I don't know much about rating, so I can not guess, but I think both are about the same, with NL a better player, the other guy may get the same rating due to his PIPs, not many players, specially juniors, can play against him.  On the side note, I am surprised the other guy did not try to attack more, with NL attack quite consistent, I think he needs to attack more and put the pressure back.

ttTurkey wrote: Something else I picked up regarding foot positioning. When warming up and hitting forehands, your right foot is splayed out to maybe two o'clock if 12 o'clock is your opponent. This also makes it easier to turn. Then you warm up bh and your foot moves to point straight at the opponent, fair enough. Then you start your match and quite a lot of forehands, especially early in the match, are hit with your foot pointing at your opponent. But I hear you about the medium pips. It's so difficult to judge without being there, seeing the pace of the ball, knowing the players and how much they spin the ball, what equipment they use etc. Which is why a good coach in person is always going to trump a bunch of randoms posting on the internet

I do have knee issues and autoimmune arthritis which is why I don't loop as much with my lower body. That is what you may be thinking about.

I appreciate the foot positioning insight you just brought up because I usually think about it differently. Maybe instead of taking my leg backwards, I should just think about pointing it to two o clock. May or may not work, but another thing to try.

NextLevel wrote: mhnh007 wrote: I think NL played a very good game, don't forget his opponent plays with MP, if NL did not put pressure right from the start, I think the other guy will have a better game .  I don't know much about rating, so I can not guess, but I think both are about the same, with NL a better player, the other guy may get the same rating due to his PIPs, not many players, specially juniors, can play against him.  On the side note, I am surprised the other guy did not try to attack more, with NL attack quite consistent, I think he needs to attack more and put the pressure back. Thanks. Did you watch the first or second match? While you don't have a rating evaluation, you may be close to the truth as you will see when I give the answer at noon.

Edited by mhnh007 - 01/08/2015 at 11:36am

High 1900s - low 2000s, so no one was substantially off.  Good commentary - I would award the most insightful commentary to aroonkl, who almost repeated exactly what my coach said, and mhnh007, who appreciated what medium pips can do to someone who doesn't practice against them regularly.

NextLevel,

Edited by jrscatman - 01/08/2015 at 11:30pm

I don't understand how anyone made any sort of reasonable guess on playing level from the videos in this thread. I'm not talking about real ratings, but just what's seen in the videos.

In the two videos with the MP player, there is so little variation in the play that you can't tell anything about the real skill levels involved. The same serves over and over again? The same returns? It's like banging your head on a wall.

Clearly, NL has a nice looking BH stroke. And it looks deadly when fed the right kind of ball. But that appears to be all the other guy was willing to do.

I understand the other guy is hitting with medium pips, but that doesn't mean he only has to block. I've got a friend who plays shakehand with MP on the backhand. He can block, chop, hit and even loop (in a crazy sort of way) with them.

The video with the kid (whose name slips me at the moment) is different, because he looks bored, but at least it showed more attempts at strategy and tactics.

Anyway, I love guess the rating threads, but I don't see enough here to make any real conclusions.