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Tt Gold
Gold Member Joined: 10/22/2014 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 1302 |
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Posted: 03/23/2015 at 2:03pm |
Comunity from germany the Point System is of course a different one but I today saw a match from the us national chanpionchip between Jim butler and kunal chodri.I don't know much about us table tennis but I wanted to ask what there us points are to kind of get a picture of what those points would be in Germany
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Matt Pimple
Gold Member Joined: 12/03/2012 Location: Phoenix Status: Offline Points: 1995 |
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I already mentioned it a few times in this forum but will do so again. I once did a statistical analysis of a bunch of players who have both a USATT rating as well as a German TTR rating and came up with the following formula: USATT = TTR + 350 (+/-50) The standard deviation was quite high because the data set was not that great. So if we take the example of Jim Butler: he currently has a USATT rating of 2528 which would correspond to a TTR of 2178 (with a range of 2128 to 2228).
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Tt Gold
Gold Member Joined: 10/22/2014 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 1302 |
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I saw the final of 2014 and just by watching the performance of him I can say that even some players with a much lower ranking play better
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wturber
Premier Member Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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Judging level via matches on video is always problematic. That game is played all the time on this forum and errors abound. |
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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Tt Gold
Gold Member Joined: 10/22/2014 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 1302 |
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Your right if I would compare two players that have very good strokes but if I see Jim butler I can tell that his backhand I weak und hhis forehand Is also not a monster and if I compare him to someone at my club which has those strokes it is pretty obvious
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pgpg
Gold Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1310 |
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We are all entitled to our opinions as far as evaluating player level via video and it would be even relevant in the parallel universe where Table Tennis somehow is using scoring system similar to figure skating or gymnastics. There I would fully agree with judges awarding extra points to players that have more entertaining playing style. In this universe, occasionally one has to play 'ugly' to win.
P.S. There is an old thread here about the same subject ("he won't even be in top 1000 in country X!")- it quickly turned rather uncivil then, hopefully we won't have to rehash it.
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USATT: ~1810
Butterfly Defense Alpha ST - H3 Neo - Cloud&Fog OX |
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Matt Pimple
Gold Member Joined: 12/03/2012 Location: Phoenix Status: Offline Points: 1995 |
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I am not sure I agree with you here! I had the pleasure to have seen Jim live at the Butterfly Aurora Cup in 2014 and I found his backhand to be particularly strong especially his "snap shot' with the wrist. He is certainly not a 2-winged power looper like a lot of kids these days but he wins his points with consistency and placement; also his serve is very strong.
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
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TTGold... PM Matt Pimple aka Mattes Noppes, he doesn't speak a lick of German, but I think he can erklaeren it for you just a bit better. :D (Right, pigs fly too)
I also have investment beachfront property for you in Arizona, if Matt doesn't sell it to you first. You gotta be ready for that big Cailfornia earthquake ya know. I don't think Jim right now would cut it even in 2. Bundesliga, (EDIT: as a #1 or #2 on the team) but that doesn't make him a bad player, he used to have a decent world ranking and US doesn't have buy a tiny fraction of the active players Germany has, but that is changing for positive and will continue to improve. Jim is a force motivating older players already interested in TT to come back to the sport and Jim has a lot of good ideas to grow our sport. What you compare is almost like comparing German top baseball players to our Major Leaguers (hundreds in the league). My team has who i think is the first ever German baseball player (Lutz) (Who was ironically born in Watertwon, NY) and even he might finish the spring camp sent to Minors. Bigger numbers of active participants and good structure with a path to professional career = a system producing top pros. USA is gunna get a lot better in the coming years, we just are no there yet and are only beginning to get together the right conditions to get our sport to accelerate its growth.
Edited by BH-Man - 03/23/2015 at 6:07pm |
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Tt Gold
Gold Member Joined: 10/22/2014 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 1302 |
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I also wouldn't say that he is a bad player but I can say that there are at least guys in the verbandsliga and up that can beat him 1 guy from my club would probably own him badly because of his concistency and cleverness but he also played in the top Danish league and in Germany in the regional life for years and was top there
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
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Read Variato's post, I think he is also VERY big at Pimp My Blade forum in Germany.
Edited by BH-Man - 03/23/2015 at 6:08pm |
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wturber
Premier Member Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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When I saw Butler play in person when he first came out of retirement, the thing that first impressed me was his backhand. I think it is a major strength in his game. Maybe that doesn't show in some videos or in some matches.
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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JacekGM
Platinum Member Joined: 02/17/2013 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 2356 |
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Tt Gold,
it is noteworthy you would raise this point here... I fully concur with pgpg. What are you trying to say, anyway? Jim's made an epic come back, it can only be applauded. You know, in this country you also get to see some really awesome young players from other countries who come to visit here for some time and, believe me, they play at a very high level that easily defies the Matt Pimple's formula. We have seen the really explosive TT here, yet we also are willing to appreciate achievement of all sorts.
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(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
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Verbandsliga ??!!! Defeat Jim... ???!!! Seriously doubt it. On vid it would appear so, heck, maybe even the occasional under-rated Landesliga champ on TAPE might LOOK like he would hand him his tail, but I would bet lunch against that. Too many subtle things he does to win points that don't look impressive in a vid, but getting the job done as a Verbandsliga player vs him is just asking al ittle too much. Now if you were to hedge Ur bet ala Tanya Harding fashion, you might have better than even odds. Without the tire iron, just start pulling out your lunch money...
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