Neo H3 or Mark V?

Hello,

Normally I am a big proponent of slower equipment for beginners.  However, if you are regularly taking lessons from someone like Malek, I would go with whatever he recommends.  With regular lessons from a coach who really keeps you using good form, you are much less likely to develop bad habits with faster equipment than the average player who just picks up something really fast and trys to learn on his own.

My concern however is that, I will soon be forced to cancel my lessons because of financial issues. And when I do eventually stop taking lessons from my coaches, will my bad habits slowly creep up due to my rubber doing a disporportionate amount of work? But I have heard that the H3 Neo is a fairly controllable rubber even for beginners, and only with truly proper technique will one be able to fully utilize the potentional of this rubber. So will I just have to gauge if I still held onto my technique by the fact that my shots are consistent in all three aspects of placement, speed and spin?

I think the biggest problem with me is that I haven't been fully putting what I have been learning in my private lessons into proper use; I have just recently began the process of rectifying my major problem that inhibits me from properly advancing my game play. I choose what stroke I want to play before I even see what type of stroke my opponent plays, which leaves me in a very awkward situation more than half of the time on my returns. The reason why I view this as a major issue is because, most of my shots are meant to be kill shots but because I am trying to execute a point ending stroke on a ball that is pretty much any where on the table I have hindered myself from applying the proper forehand stroke that I have leared in my lessons. So now with that context in mind(me forcing myself to play a more controlled game rather than hitting the ball into the net 60% of my shots) should I stick with my second sheet of Neo H3 Comm. or downgrade to Mark V?

Also, so I do not need to start a second thread, when executing a forehand loop should my shoulders be directly above my hips and legs? I mean to say, should my shoulders be exactly squared off with my hips and legs so that my hips are directly below my shoulders and my shoulders directly above my waist? Or is it incorrect to turn my body more than my legs are turned in order to get more torque?

jas_kidd32 wrote: I'm in the exact same boat as you in terms of equipment. I play cpen myself and started off with YE + Mark V. Now, I'm using Neo H3 + Sriver EL. I found that I couldn't play my shots as well as I can using the Mark V. I'm more of a brush looper and the Neo H3 is perfect for this type of strokes. I didn't feel a great loss in control using the Neo H3. It took me a month to readjust with the new rubber though, considering I played with the Mark V for 6 months.

What in the world are you talking about?  Brush loops are what you want to avoid doing when using H3.  If all you do with H3 is brush loop, your shots are probably slow and probably high which allows a player who properly uses H3 to flat drive balls down your throat.



Now back to helping the OP, I don't recommend switching out of H3 even if you can't have coaching anymore.  If you switch out, you will have completely wasted the money you used for learning with H3.  Keep working on what your coaches taught you.

As for your habit of using too much, that comes from lack of drilling.  Think of it this way.  For every 1 hour lesson I get, I drill for 10+ hours on what I learned on that lesson.  As for all those bad habits coming up during matchplay, its perfectly normal.  Just means you need to drill even more until its flushed out.  Even though you know, all those bad habits are built into your muscle memory.  It just takes time to fix.  I know it sounds like spiders and grind but that what TT is if you want to be good.

BTW, switching to Mark V isn't going to fix any of your issues, simply lightly masking it.  Down the road, you will just hit another wall if you don't completely fix this issue.  It's your technique, not the rubber (for this issue at least).

Hopefully you can fix all of that and later get more funding for more lessons down the road.  Don't rely on your coach to do everything for you.  They will teach you stuff and point out your mistakes: point you down the right path.  It's up to you to do all the work.

jdsalinger wrote: Very good points ohhgourami, I guess it really is up to me to put in the respective amount of effort to safely make it down the suggested road my coaches have sent me down. As for drilling, I unfortunately do not have the luxury of being able to properly drill because: 1) I do not have a TT robot or a table in my house, 2) I am not consistent enough for the more seasoned players at my club to hold a continuous forehand to forehand drilling workout. -.- Shadow training can only do so much.

I don't suggest using a robot at all, robots are actually very bad for you.  I don't have a table at home either.  All you're supposed to do is go to your club every day for 5 hours and just drill with whoever you can.  If you're really about 1100 with coaching, you should be able to fh to fh with someone for hours.  If the guy on the other end of the table knows what he's doing, you should be able to do 50+ hits before you screw up.

I don't recommend shadow training if you don't know exactly how you're supposed to swing.  Make sure you are contacting the ball perfectly before you start building into muscle memory or you will have a field day trying to fix your habits.

icontek wrote: ohhgourami wrote: I don't suggest using a robot at all, robots are actually very bad for you.  I think that's a bit DRAMATIC! But I'll definitely second a robot's capacity for harm. All they do is help you ingrain habits. If you have bad habits, robots can make it worse. It's only safe to use a robot if there is a coach there correcting you in real time. All you're supposed to do is go to your club every day for 5 hours and just drill with whoever you can.  If you're really about 1100 with coaching, you should be able to fh to fh with someone for hours.  If the guy on the other end of the table knows what he's doing, you should be able to do 50+ hits before you screw up. And I agree that 50+ hits should be the goal. I'd hazard a guess that very few 1100 players can hit 50 topspins in a row. And those that can are certainly using "reasonable (ALL+ speed) gear" :D Heck, you can break 1050 with just a push and pick hit :D p.s. go with the Mark V, it's more versatile *and* forgiving. And I might get some flak for this, but I would argue that it is almost impossible to "outgrow".

I don't know what standard i am but i can't hit 50 topspins in a row ='[

I'm not talking about topspins; I'm talking about counterhits which are flat or at least relatively flat.  Almost as if you were using sp and just smacking the ball back and forth.  50 hits is a reasonable goal.


Sorry to disappoint you OP, but TT is a grind.  If you want to get good, it takes a lot of time and determination.  I'm stuck in the situation where I'm too far and too busy to have weekly coaching and enough drilling simply because of how far I go to college.  My college club does not meet my expectations but I try to make the most of it.  I can't always work on my more advanced techniques but I work on my most basics of basics which indirectly makes it easier to improve more difficult things too.

The only downside to this is that my form my stray or I pick up some bad habits without the guidance of my coach.

i say stick with the h3 and just learn to do the slower shots. i'm getting the feeling that you're trying too hard and that's why you're very inconsistent. the counter like they said is very key to learning everything else.

after that, you can work on SLOW looping. then progress to more driving...

ohhgourami wrote: I'm not talking about topspins; I'm talking about counterhits which are flat or at least relatively flat.  Almost as if you were using sp and just smacking the ball back and forth.  50 hits is a reasonable goal.

Ya, I'm quoting myself...

ohhgourami wrote: 50 hits is a reasonable goal. Sorry to disappoint you OP, but TT is a grind.  If you want to get good, it takes a lot of time and determination.

+1

I've done that drill many times. It seems overly simple, mindlessly boring, and somewhat excessive... but it's not. The most important skill to learn is a forehand with good mechanics. Almost everything else is built on that. Making good mechanics as automatic as possible can only be established via lots of repetition.

Trust me, I'm a cognitive neuroscientist in training.

Another feature of the H3 that is a bit unsettling is the hardness of the sponge. Does anyone else have this same problem?

I am trying to learn how to "feel" the ball, but the balls force doesnt really penetrate through the top sheet and sponge and make it to the wood so it is really hard to develop this skill of "feeling" the ball. ( i use 39 degree comm version).

H3 is supposed to be hard after all...

isnt 39 degree pretty soft for H3?

"bad idea to use such a hard version of the sponge so early on there salinger...it'll be much harder for you to get the feel now." Rack suggested 39 degree hardness and he looked like he knew what he was talking about, should i just go down a hardness level to 38?

either way...39 commercial should be soft enough.  if its any softer than that, it would be unplayable.

i already have enough trouble using H3 as soft as 39 commercial, but i already know how to use H3.

stick with 39 and learn how to use it properly and you should be fine.