Why some people prefer heavier blades?
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Topic: Why some people prefer heavier blades?
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Subject: Why some people prefer heavier blades?
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 2:25am
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I prefer blades about 87g or somewhere around 90 and above. I was wondering why most people prefer lighter blades, so i decided to try someone else's light setup. It felt good after a few shots, but then I started screwing up. I understand that you have to at least experiment something for a few days before you can see the advantage of lighter blades, but then again, I am afraid of change. I don't want to say that I am used to playing heavier blades, but I think I am beginning to understand why I would in the end be playing with heavier setup even after trying out a lighter combo. I get more control and power with heavier blades because I feel comfortable "gripping" them. Maybe each person has a different grip tendency, but if you want to become an offensive player that relies on power, then you really need to get used to gripping heavier blades. I believe that you will tend to loose control with lighter blades, especially for hard/wide swingers. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Replies:
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 2:29am
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In my case, I have no option. If I use a heavier blade, my arm will develop some pain, so to be on the safe side, I stay with lighter blade.
------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: silvalis
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 2:31am
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When I played shakehand, I preferred light blades because it was easier/faster to grip change & switch between fh/bh. Also, I think you have it backwards. You will tend to lose control with lighter blades for hard/wide swingers. ------------- Potato Face |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 2:37am
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I do not really agree with that. You can also loose control with lighter blades if you are fast offensive player. W/o some weight, your strokes will loose control.
------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: silvalis
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 2:48am
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The balance of the blade is far more important than the overall mass either way.
------------- Potato Face |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 3:07am
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i understand that, but it appears that not everybody perceive the same balance. I think my grip will find lighter blades too light, while heavier blades would be a balanced blade for me. I think it's weird to say that I play with heavier blades, but more like other people would find my setup too heavy for their taste. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: reachie85
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 3:22am
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i have both heavy and light blades, but i think i'm gonna start sticking to the heavy blade, i do feel some advantages of lighter blades as they are easier and quicker to maneuver around, especially when it comes to reaction shots when you are in a defensive position. but for me, i have a bad habit of hitting the ball too early (trying to correct that) especially on offense. i feel that i can generate the most speed and spin after the ball has reached its highest point and on the way down during the trajectory, but most of the times i hit really close to the highest point. so having a heavier blade kinda gives me a lil bit of lag time that i feel i'm putting more power into the ball. also i like the way how the contact between the ball and the racket feels on a heavier blade, it almost feels like you are trying to destroy the ball on offense. (my setup's heavier than my friend's sh of sardius with mark v and sriver) ------------- BL: Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive CPen FH: Haifu Blue Whale 2 BH: Nittaku Nodias |
Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 3:26am
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i have a heavy set up, lkt with glue + mendo mp and tube alu wrb.. heavy blades tend to be more stable in blocking and eventhough heavy blades cannot be swung as fast as lighter blades, the weight affects the momentum when swinging which results to increase in power on your drives.. wang liqin's set up is heavy but because he is a muscled guy the weight of his set up doesn't affect his speed, giving him extra power due to the weight of his set up and his muscles
------------- Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 3:46am
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That's the problem with lighter setup. You will get the feeling that you are hitting the ball too early, especially when you are trying to finish the point. That's why you can loose control with lighter blades in terms of stroke speed. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: alphapong
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 3:47am
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"I was wondering why most people prefer lighter blades" Because they have been told lighter is better. When newbies are shopping for a blade, if they request for anything at all in their specifications; 9 times out of 10 the request is for a light blade. Their are two ways to produce additional power in a blade. Additional mass or make the blade harder, stiffer and springier. Additional mass can produce more power without a significant reduction in control, since the blade can still have the same flex, softness and dwell time. Other means of producing more power such as making it harder and stiffer have a corresponding reduction in control. Lets have a look at some of the tried and true favorite controlled attack / looping blades. � Stiga O.C. � Heavy with medium flex and softness, Petr Korbel � Heavy with medium flex and softness, Yasaka Extra � used to be Heavy with medium flex and softness, before they ruined it. Donic powerplay - Heavy with medium flex and softness Of course the very heavy Petr Korbel is so popular that Butterfly can not even keep them in stock. ( I have been back ordered for over a month) Recently a Junior told me he was looking for a new blade. I asked him what he was now using and he responded �Well, I really love my Petr Korbel, BUT it is heavy� I responded, �No, You really love your Petr Korbel BECAUSE its heavy.� So what are the manufacturers to do? They have trained the public to believe that lighter is better, yet most light blades suck. Here is where the magic of handle technology comes in! The manufacturer takes a nice heavy softer blade with good flex and then removes 5 to 10 grams from the handle. The balance now sucks, but they have taken a nice 95 gram blade and now made it acceptable to the general public since it is now only 85 grams. Although the balance is head heavy, it is still better than a stiff hard blade of the same weight. Really the consumer is just buying a 95 gram blade with some weight scooped out of the handle and bad balance, but in their head it is a 85 gram blade and thus the manufacturer can produce a blade with reasonable performance that can be accepted by the masses. The whole light blade thing is actually a pet peeve of mine since I have seen many nice blades changed or discontinued since the public has lost here appetite for anything over 85 grams. Recently one of my vendors told me that they would not be getting anymore of their best controlled looping blade, since it weighed around 90 grams and people thought that was too heavy. Another time a 2500 player broke his blade which he had had for many years. I gave him a new one and was promptly told that the new one sucked. A little investigation revealed that his old blade was 98 grams. The new one was 82 grams. Apparently the manufacturer succumbed to market pressure and reduced the weight of the blade by over 15 grams ruining it. Fortunately he found a vendor that had some very old inventory and still had the original heavy model.
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Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 3:48am
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I could tell that Wang liqin is holding a heavy racquet. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 3:54am
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Good explanation alphapong. I hope that more people think about this. I wish my carbon blade was a little heavier. i think it was like 87 g. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: reachie85
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 4:15am
yeap, but even with a heavy set up, i still hit too early, although considerably better. that's just something i gotta work on with time now, else i'd be playing table tennis with a brick  ------------- BL: Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive CPen FH: Haifu Blue Whale 2 BH: Nittaku Nodias |
O! Ju Qian wrote:Posted By: silvalis
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 4:29am
They're <85g
Typical mass 85g. NOT heavy. [edit: mybad. bty aus says 85g. bty jpn says 90g nominal]
I've seen theses anywhere between 80 and 90g
------------- Potato Face |
Posted By: TT_Freak
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 4:34am
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Its the same with any racquet sport, to get more power you either have to make it heavier or make it stiffer. I have a theory that at some stage a heavier setup will result in less power but more spin and control, because thats what happened with my tennis racquet. Perhaps this is why all the top players like heavy blades (Ma Lin, Wang Liqin and Ryu Seung Min all use exceptionally heavy blades).
------------- Violin F1 Actor 10g at 3 and 9 10g at 12 20g at the end of handle |
Posted By: silvalis
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 4:39am
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You can't count RSM here. He's a single side jpen. Even with an enormously heavy rubber, the total mass is still going to be <160g.
------------- Potato Face |
Posted By: TT_Freak
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 4:44am
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I've heard that he uses ultra dense grade hinoki though, which when talking about cypress tends to be over 100g.
------------- Violin F1 Actor 10g at 3 and 9 10g at 12 20g at the end of handle |
Posted By: alphapong
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 4:59am
Powerplay is spec'd at 88 but every one I have ever gotten has been over 90.
Also, you seem to be going by manufactures posted specs which in reallity are not much more than a combination of marketing and wishfull thinking. I have all of these in stock (except Korbel) and they all average over 90 Grams. Perhaps tomorrow I will take photos of the blades on the scale.
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Posted By: forehandloop
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 5:03am
im not a very big guy so I use a rather light blade, around 80g. However, I find I can still control my shots, and am more consistent than when I try out my partner's heavy butterfly
 ------------- MALIN=Making A Loop Irritate Noobs TIMOBOLL=Tt Includes More Of Body Odour, Lob Lowly SAMSONOV=Slicing A Massive Spin Over Non-Oxygen Vessels MALONG=My Attack Leads Our National Encyclopedia |
Posted By: silvalis
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 5:04am
No, I am not going by manufacturer specs. Look, I've had 3 OC straights pass through me, one of them wrb. heaviest 85, lightest 79.5 (wrb). I've weighed 1 korbel, which was 84g, from bty aus. ------------- Potato Face |
Posted By: silvalis
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 5:05am
But when you take into consideration his rubber, (whatever it is), you're only looking at 50g tops. Jpen cutouts tend to be smaller (and hence lighter) than a shakehand or cpen cutout. ------------- Potato Face |
Posted By: Jolan
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 7:04am
Alphapong :  .
Very interresting post and very fresh too. I tend to agree with you regarding the importance of a decent weighed blade into the looping and driving ability. As an example I still got two taico 100 blades that I've considered for a long time as my best gear for looping. If you wonder why they are called taico 100, just put them on a scale, they are...100g. Sometimes I let them tried by some practice mates and they quickly gave them back to me in disguss. The word "brick" been oftenly used. Now I also understand the lighter blade player concern, such as aeoliah. There's a world of difference between a 80g and a 95g blade when you're practicing two hours and you usually play loop mid-distance. Heavy blades hurt. I'm currently having a shoulder tendinosis and it sucks ! Therefore I practice with my 80g septear at the mmnt and I mostly block and push for the youngsters to work on their consistency. But as soon as the pain gives me a break, I seize my beloved 92g acoustic and start the bombing...I'm in heaven ! ------------- Joola Wyzaryz Freeze Vega pro 2.0mm Vega intro 2.0mm Blade collection : https://photos.app.goo.gl/PrgCu5ib5RnhVXTn9" rel="nofollow - https://photos.app.goo.gl/PrgCu5ib5RnhVXTn9 |
Posted By: TT_Freak
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 7:28am
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Well, considering that my old pips out blade was about 140g I think that he would be able to get something in that weight range anyway, or maybe his ultra hard and heavily speedglued rubber helps. ------------- Violin F1 Actor 10g at 3 and 9 10g at 12 20g at the end of handle |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 8:35am
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And don't forget that manufacturing tolerance can be more than 10 grams.
------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: ppgear
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 8:43am
You shouldn't be switching your blade in order to fix your hitting-too-early issue, you should be fixing your stroke in your mind and in practice. You need to overcome any flaws by adusting yourself, not your equipment. ------------- Arthur Lui Revspin.net - Table Tennis Equipment Reviews Top USATT Rating: 2131 |
Posted By: ppgear
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 8:49am
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I like light blades (max 85g) because I can more quickly hide my stroke from service (not sure what the term is). Like, when I serve, right after making contact with the ball I jerk my wrist in another direction so it makes it harder for the opponent to guess my spin, instead of showing my follow-through. Sorta something similar to what Chen Qi does, and Ma Lin sometimes, actually very close to what Wang Liqin does sometimes where he flips the racket so the backhand side is facing the opponent. ------------- Arthur Lui Revspin.net - Table Tennis Equipment Reviews Top USATT Rating: 2131 |
Posted By: silvalis
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 9:46am
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I like heavy (85-90) blades if i'm using euro or japanese rubber, otherwise light (75-80) if i'm using chinese.
------------- Potato Face |
Posted By: alphapong
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 1:01pm
Unfortunately you are all too correct. This is common even with the expensive name brands.
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Posted By: Wawaicetea123
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 1:14pm
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i think most eperienced players like a bat around 95 to 100 grms
it dosnt really matter how heavy it is to me
im 6'0 200 pounds ------------- Kreanga Aeros ST FH: Tenergy 05 Red 2.1 BH: Flarestorm II Black 2.1 |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 1:50pm
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Don't forget that more experienced or pro players sometime get their stuff custom made. Here's an interesting artcicle about blades. http://www.gotabletennis.com/Blades_s/2.htm
------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 2:05pm
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i could always tell whether a person is playing with a lighter setup or not by the way they swing. If a player's loops are spinny most of the time, then that means that their blade is very light and I would verify this by asking him (very very light). His strokes seem effortless when looping, which i find hard to believe. If you ever watch pro level players, they work through each point and they swing hard. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: reachie85
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 2:14pm
yeah, i know, i'm working on that, and with time i will prevail in fixing the problem  . but i never really changed equipment, i started out with a heavy blade, then tried a light blade for a few weeks, then went back to heavy blade.------------- BL: Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive CPen FH: Haifu Blue Whale 2 BH: Nittaku Nodias |
Posted By: Wawaicetea123
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 2:17pm
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yes exactly
it is the same theory in bowling
if you use a light ball about 10 pounds you can spin the ball very efectively and have an easier time useing it
if you use a heavy ball that is about 16 pounds if you hit a single pin in the front all of the pins go down
momentum is the entire idea
if you swing a light bat quickly
compared to a heavy one you have more kinetic energy hitting the ball back ------------- Kreanga Aeros ST FH: Tenergy 05 Red 2.1 BH: Flarestorm II Black 2.1 |
Posted By: reachie85
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 2:23pm
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just curious, why don't many people use yasaka extra 7? it's apparently the heaviest there is in the yasaka line up. i'm curious about this blade if anyone has any comment about it. if i ever decide to go back to all wood (not likely to happen with my sweet sweet ma lin carbon), that might be on the top of my list.
------------- BL: Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive CPen FH: Haifu Blue Whale 2 BH: Nittaku Nodias |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 2:38pm
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I would in the future, but i don't think i have ever tried 7 ply wood before. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: reachie85
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 3:16pm
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do let us know how that plays in the future, come to think of it, i never tried 7 ply either...
------------- BL: Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive CPen FH: Haifu Blue Whale 2 BH: Nittaku Nodias |
Posted By: alphapong
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 4:04pm
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My assertion is not and never has been that blade weights don�t vary or that you cant find any of the aforementioned blades in sub 90 gram weights. My assertion is that many well liked attacking / looping blades are on the heavier side (around 90g). Since you have challenged several of my statements on blade weight I will offer the following to support my statements. O.C. Typical weight
Dave Says: 90 Silvalis says: <85 Paddle Palace says: 89 The Scale says: 91.2
You decide. Powerplay Typical weight Dave Says: 90 Silvalis says: 80-90 American Table Tennis says: 88 The Scale says: 92.7  You decide.
I don�t want to come across as arrogant here, but can you not see the humor in that statement? You weighed ONE Korbel. Well I guess that settles it then. Sivalis weighed ONE Korbel, and with that large sampling we can conclude that they all average around 85g. Please keep in mind that I sell hundreds of blades each year, and it is my habit to weigh every blade I sell. The average weight for Korbel is nowhere close to 84/85g figure you mention. It is much closer to the 90g from the BTY Japan site. I now use a custom large handled Carboflex that weighs about 110g. But, prior to that my blade of choice which I used for around 10 years was O.C. Funny thing is that the first O.C. I bought was actually in Sydney in the late 80�s. It and the other 2 that I owned, were all between 90 and 92g, as have been the majority I have sold. If you find some lighter O.C., that does not change the fact that it gained it�s reputation as an excellent controlled attack / looping blade while being on average a heavier blade. |
Posted By: alphapong
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 4:19pm
| I should be able to give some feedback on Extra 7 in about a week. I have never stocked this blade before, but this is one blade I am considering to replace my aging Carboflex. Of course the reason I am considering it is because it is heavy with relatively soft outer plies. 2 other blades I am considering are Offensive Oversize and Kevtech. My long pips require some softness and flex in the blade, but I want decent power for my forehand since I don't glue. |
Posted By: mece
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 4:23pm
nice scale, lol. mind if I ask where you get it from. ------------- |
Posted By: alphapong
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 4:52pm
Fry's. Dont get the same model though. This one maxes out at around 100g, so I can't weigh blade and rubber together. I actually bought this one because it is accurate to tenths of a gram and I wanted to dispell a myth that a certain ball was lighter than another. I weighed a dozen of each and the "light" ball was actually heavier. It felt lighter because it was softer. I recon the best scales for TT are the Sunbeam ones. They are accurate to within 1 gram, can weigh blade and rubber together and are cheap.
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Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 5:40pm
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Nice, i should get one too. I hope that more people read about this cause I don't want everybody to think that is "common sense" to play with lighter blades. I want to make another point that you will not get hurt by using heavier blades if you understand your basic strokes. Weapons do not hurt people, only people do. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 5:43pm
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And why would you not experience any pain from lighter blades cause I think you could. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: mece
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 6:49pm
it's actually for my kitchen. lol thanks....
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Posted By: ppgear
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 10:15pm
It's not exactly as simple as that. If you loop using a 75g and 95g blade, swinging both at 50mph, then the 95g blade (assuming same materials and such, with less plies or whatever) will be guaranteed to give you more power. *BUT, this is never the case in real life, because if you switch to a lighter blade, you will end up swinging the racket faster (assuming you use the same strength available to your body). - 75g blade swung at max power = 65mph - 95g blade swung at max power = 50mph Which will produce more power? I don't know. So it's not as simple as saying heavier blade = more power. What if you start using a 500g blade? If you swing that at max power, it might travel 5mph and produce less power than the 75g at 65mph. ------------- Arthur Lui Revspin.net - Table Tennis Equipment Reviews Top USATT Rating: 2131 |
Posted By: silvalis
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 10:33pm
congratulations, you weighed one as well. I am overwhelmed by irony. Now - your clipper wood. I've had 4. 80.5, 92, 82.7, 86g, ------------- Potato Face |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 10:42pm
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Remember your physics? Would a heavier object or lighter object have a greater impact against the same object? You can get power from a lighter blade, but not as much power from a heavier blade no matter how fast you swing. You would probably get more spin on the ball with a lighter blade and not as much speed. The faster you accelarate with a lighter blade, the more errors you encounter. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: silvalis
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 10:51pm
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Incidentally, don't forget that the style of the player determines the "comfortable" mass of the bat as well. A close to the table attacker would prefer a light blade for speed and a mid/long looper would prefer a heavier blade. You can't generalize and say that heavy blades are better. It depends on the style and the player ------------- Potato Face |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 10:53pm
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yea, you are right. it really depends on the style, but even some close to the table attackers would play with a heavier blade. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: ppgear
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 11:06pm
I would have to disagree. So if Wang Liqin was using a light 77g blade, his loop drive must have less power than mine because I'm using a heavier 85g blade (assuming we have the same type of blade, and same rubbers, etc.)? He has a blazing fast loop stroke, clearly I can't top that based on the weight of my racket alone. Momentum = Mass x Velocity ------------- Arthur Lui Revspin.net - Table Tennis Equipment Reviews Top USATT Rating: 2131 |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 11:07pm
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Well, for me heavier blade is better, but it's just that many people say that lighter blades are better. i just want people to have more choices. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 11:09pm
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That's true, but you cannot say that lighter blades would give you more power either. I doubt wang liqin would play with a light blade. i find it quite interesting that we are having this kind of conversation. I hope that more people can fill in the gaps. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 11:14pm
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we are also forgetting another thing. some people have a stronger grip and have more muscle than others, hence they can accelarate fast with a heavier blade. Momentum = Mass x Velocity
As velocity is increased mass is decreased equals higher momentum
As mass is increased velocity is decreased equals higher momentum
Physics is more complicated than what it really seems too and that equation is not as simple as it seems. There are other things you have to take account of.
You cannot rely on mass alone, but you can also not rely on speed alone.
------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: ppgear
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 11:27pm
I'm certain that some lighter combinations, combined with the person swinging their hardest will produce more power. It's a gradient effect. Since Momentum = Mass x Velocity, we can predict some effects when you change the variables. CASE 1: Let's start with an 80g blade (with rubbers the total mass is 220g) swinging your hardest at 50mph. So momentum = 220g x 50mph = 11,000 CASE 2: If you increase the weight to a 100g blade (total mass 240g) and swing at 50mph, then you've increased the momentum. The problem is, if your max swinging speed was 50mph with a lighter blade, then with a heavier blade the max swinging speed would drop to, let's say, 40mph. Then momentum is 240g x 40mph = 9600. My point is that if you increase the weight, you will decrease the speed. What is the overall effect on power (or momentum)? Ambiguous. In some cases you will get a higher momentum, in some cases a lower one, depending on the variables. Maybe in general, people switching from 77g to 90g will see an increase in power, I'm not sure. You can only know when you get the numbers. It's possible that an increase of 20g in weight (about 10% gain in total mass) only slows down your max swing by 2% and therefore produces a more powerful shot overall. Thorough studies would be needed to be sure though. ------------- Arthur Lui Revspin.net - Table Tennis Equipment Reviews Top USATT Rating: 2131 |
Posted By: ppgear
Date Posted: 06/12/2007 at 11:32pm
Those two statements are not necessarily true. It depends on the actual numbers. Sometimes they will produce lower momentum, sometimes higher. My point is just that it's ambiguous, you don't know until you specify specific cases, and in some cases you will produce lower momentum. ------------- Arthur Lui Revspin.net - Table Tennis Equipment Reviews Top USATT Rating: 2131 |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 12:37am
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Yea, I agree with what you are saying, so i guess using physics would make things somewhat complicated. I think it really depends on the person, but I just want to say what alphapong said earlier that most people think that lighter blades are better than heavier blades just because someone else said so. I would like people to decide for themselves. I personally think that there is a disadvantage to using lighter blades just as people believe about heavier blades. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 12:45am
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What bothers me the most is that many people who play offensive style believe that lighter blades are better, then what's the point of making heavier blades that are often designed for offensive players as well. if you've checked this website http://www.gotabletennis.com/Blades_s/2.htm - http://www.gotabletennis.com/Blades_s/2.htm
FAST, HEAVY BLADES: have the greatest power producing potential if accelerated to maximum speed at ball contact. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: mece
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 1:00am
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that I know of momentun dont depend on weight, it depends on velocity and mass, but velocity is more important according the the momentun equation P=M(mass)*V(velocity) hence, ligther the blade more velocity in your swing=more momentun, or more mass on the blade= more memomentun. They are both directly proportional to each other. I agree with you, it is all relative to the playing style and personal preference
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Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 1:14am
It is nice to have some interesting topic to be discussed together isn't it ? Especially when everybody is joining in good spirit without creating bad feeling for other person.
------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 1:22am
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That's why this forum was created. You should expect people to disagree with you no matter what and you work your way to discuss it in a somewhat friendlier manner. You get your point across so you have to let other people do the same thing. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: ppgear
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 1:24am
Yep  .
------------- Arthur Lui Revspin.net - Table Tennis Equipment Reviews Top USATT Rating: 2131 |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 1:28am
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I would like to thank people who shared their thoughts about this topic. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: reachie85
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 2:31am
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naw, y'all suck! heavy blades rule! lol, i just playin'. really, what it comes down to is finding the right blade for yourself. which ever kind of blade, be it light or heavy, makes you win points the most is the right blade for you. ------------- BL: Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive CPen FH: Haifu Blue Whale 2 BH: Nittaku Nodias |
Posted By: TT_Freak
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 3:28am
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Up to a certain headspeed you lose control and the timing becomes too tricky, plus there is neglible difference between a 100g blade and 80g blade where arm speed is concerned. There is a trend where less experienced players will love light blades, where as players with more than 10 years playing time love heavy blades.
------------- Violin F1 Actor 10g at 3 and 9 10g at 12 20g at the end of handle |
Posted By: alphapong
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 3:35am
Wrong once again. It was your assertion that you weighed ONE Korbel. I stated that I have sold and weighed many.
I simply posted a photo of a couple blades on the scale to establish that I am not simply pulling these figures out of my rear to try to prove my point as I suspect you are. And now you want us to believe that Clipper Classic with a spec'd weight of 95g is really a light blade as well? So I guess it's a conspiracy then is it? I have teamed up with the manufactures and distributors to misrepresent the weights of the previously mentioned blades. Heavy blades are now so popular that the weights of light blades must be fudged so as to appear heavier than they really are? Your statements not only contradict my experience, but the published specs, and common knowledge. With each post on this topic you make yourself look more silly. What facts can you make up next to try to prove your point?
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Posted By: silvalis
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 4:58am
I must have hit a nerve to deserve that pic... Why would you think that I've been pulling these figures out of nowhere? Just because someone else has differing experience to yours doesn't mean you are correct. I've used many blades and have dealt with multiple blades of the same type many times. I'm a bit of a blade nuts and measure and weigh every single blade that comes through my hands. If you don't want to accept that, don't be an arse about it and just accept someone else's view. Look, i accept that you have heavier blades. But that doesn't mean that all OCs are that heavy or that the average mass is 89 or whatever. I happen to have here a 67g OC CR non WRB penhold. Give us a typical weight spread of the OCs you have in stock. You're taking this very poorly for a dealer, resorting to insults. One would think you have something to hide... ------------- Potato Face |
Posted By: Peter C
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 5:02am
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I used a Stiga Offensive Wood with 1.5mm Mark V, when I was playing Table Tennis as a teenager and the blade was heavy. I developed my game from that base and learnt to play a good short game, whilst hitting with power from mid distance. i.e. I was using a heavier set up when developing a varied game. I naturally prefer using blades around 82-92 grams because they allow me to play my natural game. My power comes from the mass of a heavier set up, the velocity of my swing and the strength and technique developed from using a heavier set up. My swing doesn't change with a lighter set up, but I do play a closer to the table game. With lighter blades, I prefer to use tension rubbers, but I notice I play more consistently with a heavier set up, which bears out the point above that you make more mistakes when trying to hit harder and faster with power on lighter set ups. I also find I have more varied game with the heavier set up because it has more gears for me. Other players who play close to the table may disagree with me, but that's my experience. Lighter set ups for me are more suited to close to the table players, also mentioned above. |
Posted By: silvalis
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 5:48am
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Here's something else to consider - can heavy rubbers make up for a light blade (and stabilize a loop or whatever)?
------------- Potato Face |
Posted By: TT_Freak
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 8:19am
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Final mass is whats important, so having Chinese rubbers or lead tape will help tweak the way it plays.
------------- Violin F1 Actor 10g at 3 and 9 10g at 12 20g at the end of handle |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 10:06am
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hmmmm, 67g for an OC seems rather farfetched. I don't think anywhere in the market would go that low. Well, i prefer heavier rubbers even if i had a heavier blade. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 10:19am
I think the weight of rubbers is a different story. Now, you are speaking about making your loops stable, it is said that HEAVIER WEIGHT BLADES:( over 90 grams) are often more stable when hit off center and once accelerated, produce a higher speed to spin ratio for topspin attacking shots. I got it from this website http://www.gotabletennis.com/Blades_s/2.htm who was designed with the help of a professional player (Heather Wang). ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 10:30am
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I was wondering why Silvalis would be asking that question. Did you feel that you needed some weight in your racquet? Or are you simply raising questions for us to ponder about? ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: fatcomet
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 4:40pm
sil ......
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Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 4:51pm
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Heh, is there something you want to share fatcomet? ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: fatcomet
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 5:52pm
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todays been a rough day for him... arguments to lose, forums to close, rages to sook, an heroes to make |
Posted By: nplarkin
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 6:34pm
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Just to set a few things straight, both mass and velocity are EQUALLY important in determining momentum.
The difference in the max speed a person can swing a 200 gram vs a 250 gram bat is probably the none. (relatively small amount of weight compared to the weight of our arm) If we were talking about blades that differed by more 300 grams maybe there would be a difference in the max speed a person could generate.
However, changing direction (acceleration) is slightly more difficult with the heavier blade. Which gives us the feeling of more or less speed. i.e. easier to move from back hand to for hand, start stroke, timing, etc.
So those with very short strokes may find that a light blade is faster to them because they are able to get it up to max speed in time to hit the ball, where if they were using a heavy blade they would still be trying to accelerate.
Those with longer stroke will always find heavier blades faster (provided same hardness, etc.) as they have plenty of time to accelerate the blade to max speed.
------------- SUNFLEX Carbon fl/Saviga/Inspirit Armstrong 1 ply Hinoke/999t and CJ8000 on 2.2 Cannon |
Posted By: creeder06
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 9:05pm
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i love the amount of hear say wang liqin uses a heavy blade so&so uses a light blade does anyone actually know or does every one just guess i bet if you wieghed pro blades they would fall in line with what we all play with a average of 84-87 with a few exceptions on both sides
i personally have had both light and heavy blade i like blades in the 85-90 range for a while i thought that lighter was better till i found i never had any control or touch and by uping the wieght just a touch i gained some touch and control
no i dont think that heavy rubbers balance out a light blade i think it throws the balance off even more to answer you question silv ------------- if table tennis is to sports, what star wars is to movies, then you must be chewbacca. |
Posted By: 7homuz
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 10:29pm
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haha yeah, i was kinda wondering that too... i was like... wtf... first argue what blades pros use... and now arguing what the weights of their blades are?!?! =O anyway, my blades 79g, but both rubbers are 55 grams cut with once 2 layers of glue on it. (999/saviga and cj8000). i used to play with much lighter rubbers i.e. innova and sriver el, i can only truly tell the diffnce in weight when i am playing multiball or drills though. ------------- Blade:Darker 7P-2A Forehand: Donic Bluefire M2 MAX Backhand: Palio CK531A 0.6 |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 11:14pm
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we were guessing what the pros were using, but the main point of this topic is to discuss about the weight of your blade. You think wang liqin would play with a light setup? I doubt he does. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: 7homuz
Date Posted: 06/13/2007 at 11:34pm
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yeah, but you dont know for sure. so i dont really think its appropriate to use that as an example or fact. i'm not saying anyone in specific did that (cuz i'm too lazy to go back and check every post) but just pointing it out if you dont know something for sure, its better to make clear that its a guess. i doubt he use light blades too btw =P ------------- Blade:Darker 7P-2A Forehand: Donic Bluefire M2 MAX Backhand: Palio CK531A 0.6 |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/14/2007 at 1:12am
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no one actually said what wang liqin uses for sure. i was just making a bad guess or example, so it's more like "what if" sort of thing or "i bet." man, if i was saying stuff like "i know what wang liqin" uses, then people are going to get nasty on me cause I know for sure i have no prove, and i would not bother making any excuses. i am pretty sure no one thought the wrong way, so they just ignored what i said and continued to share their thoughts about this. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/14/2007 at 1:28am
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It's funny cause people would reply to you in a friendlier way if you are just innocently implying. Or, they will find you rather silly (but not to say that you are stupid) about what you're saying. Hey 7homuz, are you playing penhold or shakehand? ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: 7homuz
Date Posted: 06/14/2007 at 1:53am
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lol, thats why i said i'm not saying anyone did that specifically xD i left myself a back road today (smart for once?) anyway, i do agree with you though, i belive his racket is a pretty heavy setup too. shakehand, why do you ask? ------------- Blade:Darker 7P-2A Forehand: Donic Bluefire M2 MAX Backhand: Palio CK531A 0.6 |
Posted By: Messerschmitt
Date Posted: 06/14/2007 at 2:29am
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I was obsessed with finding the lightest blade. I found out that andro sold a carbon blade that weighed 71 grams. When I got mine I weighed it and it was 67grams!! It was fun for a little while but the lightness of the blade did affect my strokes. Also, the ball contact was very strange. I would say that I didn't get very much spin or speed with the light blade. My strokes were lightning fast but the ball usually had weak power.
I have also used an old 7ply Chinese blade that weighed over 100 grams. Doing multi-ball with that blade was very exhausting. Since it was an old Chinese blade it was fast but not enough to justify the super heaviness of it.
Right now I use the Timo Boll spark which is about 90 grams and I think that weight is good. I can fell the contact and I can create decent speed and spin.
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Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/14/2007 at 2:41am
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nice that some people play in the 90g range. 7homuz, i was just curious. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: TT_Freak
Date Posted: 06/14/2007 at 6:30am
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Typically people who use two rubbers play in the 90-100g range because the rubbers help make up for lost mass. But old school pips out players would go around with blades in the 120-50g range.
------------- Violin F1 Actor 10g at 3 and 9 10g at 12 20g at the end of handle |
Posted By: *JC*
Date Posted: 06/14/2007 at 7:00am
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thanks to sh*tty internet arguments like this, that i have learned not to bother with....i sleep better at night... you know what they say about internet arguments and the special olympics dont you ??? ------------- Thats not a knife THIS is a knife. Thats not a knife THATS a spoon. |
Posted By: timd
Date Posted: 06/14/2007 at 8:37am
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From Danny Seemiller's book, " Winning Table Tennis", in the chapter title "Choosing the Right Equipment":
Blade Weight
Blade weight is a combination of the size of the blade, its thickness, its material, and the density of the material. In general, the lighter the blade, the easier its mobility and the greater the velocity of the paddle on contact. Such blades are ideal for hitters who play up at the table and need to move quickly and decisively. In contrast, a heavier blade allows more dynamic topsin on loops, more stability on blocks, and usually greater speed on the ball. (A heavier blade swung at the same velocity as a lighter one transfers more energy at contact.) We recommend you use as heavy a blade as is comfortable. Remember, however, that the type and thickness of the rubber you choose, along with a blade will dramatically affect the overall weight of the paddle.
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Posted By: Peter C
Date Posted: 06/14/2007 at 8:47am
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Timd I agree with Danny Seemiller, thats good advice. |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/14/2007 at 1:47pm
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Nice explanation timd. I wonder if some people have a change of thought cause I do completely now. So, lighter blades are usually used by hitters and maybe counter attackers right? ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: creeder06
Date Posted: 06/14/2007 at 3:56pm
wow jc still hanging around havent seen you post anywhere in a while. i thought you had given all this up for green grass some where else ------------- if table tennis is to sports, what star wars is to movies, then you must be chewbacca. |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/15/2007 at 2:36am
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this question goes for those people who use fast/offensive + blades. Do you guys play with something fast just to suit your offensive style? I am also referring to people that buy butterfly equipments. There are some offensive players that would prefer to play with something slow. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 06/15/2007 at 4:07am
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I have two blades that I like and use more than others. One is 80g ALL + and the other a 95g OFF blade. I can hit and loop well with either. Both feel well balanced, transfer ball feeling, and let me make my shots with good control. The heavier one DOES feel more powerful, but you'd expect that from an OFF blade. ------------- Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
Posted By: iakovka
Date Posted: 06/17/2007 at 5:47pm
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Now I understand why people prefer a havier blades
Today I tryed to play with very light blade. that was really bad.
I did not feel my hand - it was too free to move
Maybe it is good for fast play(not power play) niar the table - but for spins and contraspins - too light blade is not a good decision - FOR ME
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Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/17/2007 at 6:32pm
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yea, i still don't understand why people think that fast stroke with light blade will give them power. I only felt myself cutting air but i didn't feel the ball at all when i use lighter blades. You don't get a lot of feel with lighter blades and impact at contact point. ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
Posted By: Swiff
Date Posted: 06/17/2007 at 7:13pm
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Less vibration. Less feedback if you ask me. ------------- 
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Posted By: tatan
Date Posted: 06/18/2007 at 4:00pm
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first of all heavy blade does not mean that its weight should be near 100gm,but where the balance point is.oc is abt 87gm but not heavy since its balance point is at the middle point of the playing surface which makes it a balance combo for offencing game.
most people likes head heavy(not over all heavy) blades or combos because it imparts more pressure on the ball than the balanced combo which make the player feel the ball better. and i must say that most of us cannot 1)transfer weight at right time(less power) 2)do not have right action(less control and feel) 3)move according to the ball or choose the right type of shot(whether to go forward or to lift up)for a ball. using a balanced combo does not counter any of these problems but a head heavy combo can counter first two problem. a light combo need perfect contact and timing and very fast action and not good for far away from table so it realy lookes like 1)if ur quick on ur feet u have a choice between both type of combos 2)if ur slow u should go for a balanced combo or stay close to the table with a heavy one to kill when possible ------------- 1)ZJ fl(89 gm) fh T05 red max bh T05 fx black max 2)TBS fl(89 gm) fh T05 black max bh GKI hybrid gx red max |
Posted By: O! Ju Qian
Date Posted: 06/18/2007 at 5:18pm
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good explanation. now that you think about it, doesn't that tell you that heavier blades has more potential power from any distance compared to lighter blades? ------------- BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |