short pips
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Topic: short pips
Posted By: Qtjoel
Subject: short pips
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 1:03am
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do people not use short pips on the forehand because they don't like the feel? I've used my friend's speedy p.o. on on forehand and I found it awesome. Although I've been coached, I could never be consistant with inverted rubber looping, it would always be a couple of hits before I missed, but everytime I hit and not loop...I was always more consistant. I know that looping with inverted rubbers have a lot more potential than short pips, but it just doesnt feel right for me. So is it okay to just get away from the norm and use speedy p.o. on both backhand and forehand? Johnny Huang has pips on both sides and he is top 100 in the world. Is it also easier to chop with speedy p.o. compared to lts say sriver, sriver el max/2.1? I'm asking this because I think I'll need more variation in speed since I wont have a lot of variation in spin, or should I just attack and not chop?
------------- joola express 1 joola express 2 avalox 770 - www.wtfoodge.com |
Replies:
Posted By: ProfessorChaos
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 1:11am
this is true....johnny is good but he is way past his prime and players during the 80s and 90s played an offensive but not all looping style....that style is all but extinct at the highest of levels. at his prime, johnny was top 20 in the world in '79 or '89 i believe. He also beat waldner at the 96 olympics... playing pipsout hitting style is old school. but chopping with high tension rubber is difficult because of the sponge... inverted was born in the 80s and 90s and all taken over the pips out style....tho some players still play with P.O. but they are usually girls. ------------- Yasaka Max Carbon 3D FL Desto F1 Max Sriver FX Max |
Qtjoel wrote:Posted By: Madbrazilian
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 1:13am
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I don't think that anybody can tell you what is right or wrong. It really comes down to what you prefer. If you feel better with speedy p.o. both sides then go ahead. Keep in mind though some of the disadvantages. You definitely loose mid-distance power. Once your opponent forces you off the table, you'll be in trouble. If you tend to stay closer to the table, then that probably won't bother you too much. You also will have problems with low backspin balls. Shortpips are great when hitting against topspin or higher backspin balls, you will have trouble against the low backspin ones because your options don't include the brushing stroke that inverted players use to open up against low backspin balls. DJ alto was also a strong player who used short pips both sides. He was very strong and I had alot of trouble against him. I was able to get a game off him but in the end, I couldn't keep my balls short and low enough and he was able to force me back from the table. He has switched to inverted on forehand because of his weakness against low backspin balls. But like I said, it's all about personal preference. ------------- Killerspin Diamond TX ST Killerspin Forza 4z 2.1 both sides |
Posted By: Qtjoel
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 1:20am
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DAYUM YOU PLAYED ALTO?! WHATS YO RATING?!
------------- joola express 1 joola express 2 avalox 770 - www.wtfoodge.com |
Posted By: Madbrazilian
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 1:23am
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It's 1900. I played him a while back though, maybe a couple of months.
------------- Killerspin Diamond TX ST Killerspin Forza 4z 2.1 both sides |
Posted By: Qtjoel
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 1:27am
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shouldnt it be easier to get balls over the table when using pips since they kind of cancel out spin?
------------- joola express 1 joola express 2 avalox 770 - www.wtfoodge.com |
Posted By: ProfessorChaos
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 1:51am
keep in mind...pips play very different from conventional inverted. low backspin is hard with PO because there is no stroke that can flip it into topspin. relying on hitting you can hit it with open face... ------------- Yasaka Max Carbon 3D FL Desto F1 Max Sriver FX Max |
Posted By: Madbrazilian
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 2:04am
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Yes and no. It really depends on the angle your coming at. Here's the thing (it's kinda hard to explain without a picture or actually being at the table). the difference between a hit and a loop is the fact that a in a loop, you are putting topspin on the ball. Why? Ultimately, it comes down to this: when you contact the ball, the ball is not at the same level or higher as the net. Therefore, you can't put any pace on the ball by just hitting the ball. When you hit the ball, the ball is leaving your racket quickly and it has little or no spin on it, so if you are contacting the ball under net level, there is really no way that you can put power behind it while getting to land on the other side. you have to angle the ball off which usually leads to you lobbing or pushing. When you loop the ball, the topspin you generate allows you to put pace behind the ball when it under net level and still have it land on the other side. Why? because the more pace you're putting behind the ball in a loop (ideally) puts more topspin on the ball. the increased topspin leads to that characteristic "arc" on the ball which makes it land short, allowing fast shots hit below net level to land on the other side. With pips, you can't loop as effectively as you can with inverted. Much of the topspin on loops is generated by the topsheet. The friction between ball and topsheet, especially on tackier rubberes, creates a lot of topspin. The friction between the ball and topsheet is not as great with pips, I believe it has to do with less overall contact between the two surfaces. When looping against topspin with pips, you might not have that much trouble. the ball you're contacting is above net level or not very far below so you don't need to create much arc to land the ball on the table as opposed to off the other end. However when you get a low backspin ball, it's a different story. Inverted players can open up and loop these balls. When they do loop these balls, it is crucial that they generate a good amount of topspin arc. This is done with the topsheet even more against these low backspin balls. That way, inverted players can contact balls way below net level and create arc to land the shots. with pips, it is true that they do "cancel off spin", but that doesn't change the fact that you're contacting the ball way below net level. Because you can't create as much arc, you can't get as much power behind your shots in this situation which is why this is a weakness of short pips. This is how I see it at least. ------------- Killerspin Diamond TX ST Killerspin Forza 4z 2.1 both sides |
Posted By: pingpongpaddy
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 7:49am
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QJTOEL
Dont listen to these guys. Of course you can be successful with sp on fh I am an attacking player with sp both sides. Looping against chop is fine, looping against top spin is not necessary as you should be counterdriving against counterhit or opps loop. I put topspin on all my attacking shots though its quite slight for my fh kill and bh punch. My opps find it flat and that makes it difficult for them to get the initiative. Key to success is to hit early or peak bounce when possible. if you find that you ve let the ball drop too much just open the racket and play a slower lifting stroke. The slow ball will give you prep time for yr next shot ------------- inactive dotec carbokev yin he galaxy 1 p ly FH moristo sp AX MAX bh moristo sp ax max |
Posted By: Madbrazilian
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 12:06pm
Like I said, I totally up to you. In fact I've been debating whether or not to switch to sp both sides. What I've said is what Stellan Bengston (1st Swedish world champ) told me in a long conversation we had about it together. Also keep in mind that the higher you get, the less of a viable option a "slower lifting stroke" will be. Higher level players will jump on shots like that and force you back from the table, which is definitely a weak zone. I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. Ultimately, no one can tell you to do it or not, you have to weigh the pros against the cons and decide. If you're an aggressive player who already stays close to the table and likes to hit and hit spin rather than loop, by all means go for it. By the way, pingpongpaddy, how's flarestorm? I've never heard any reviews of it. How does it compare to 802-40? Do you glue it? ------------- Killerspin Diamond TX ST Killerspin Forza 4z 2.1 both sides |
Posted By: Wawaicetea123
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 12:09pm
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you like flarestorm pingpong paddy? i tryed it out it was to weird for meits probably better for shakehand
(im a short pips penhold hitter)
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Posted By: pingpongpaddy
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 12:57pm
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hi wawa
flarestorm is very hard, very fast, Ideal for big kill shot. I use Tyranno on bh (ver good for blocking) I play with ph sp team mates, they love it for kill but need something softer to block with, so usually they go for something a bit softer, maybe raystorm 1.5 or Tyranno 1.7. Also 802.40 with a custom sponge is still v popular with our ph sp players. All our sp ph guys are unhappy since the ball change because the rubber that helps them kill is difficult to block with. We do have some younger guys who do rpb, but they are not strong players ------------- inactive dotec carbokev yin he galaxy 1 p ly FH moristo sp AX MAX bh moristo sp ax max |
Posted By: Qtjoel
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 1:23pm
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thanks guys, right now I only look up to johnny huang because he is the only <b> shakehand</b> player that plays with shortpips on <b> both</b> sides. If you guys have any videos of him please do tell. I really liked speedy p.o. because from what I remember it was really accurate. Are all pips like that?
------------- joola express 1 joola express 2 avalox 770 - www.wtfoodge.com |
Posted By: ProfessorChaos
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 1:30pm
btw johnny huang was 10th in the world in 96/97 i believe. ------------- Yasaka Max Carbon 3D FL Desto F1 Max Sriver FX Max |
Posted By: Madbrazilian
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 1:44pm
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could flarestorm generate as much spin as 802-40? 802-40 felt like a cross between inverted and pips. it didn't really feel like inverted but it felt closer than other pips. Is flarestorm like that?
------------- Killerspin Diamond TX ST Killerspin Forza 4z 2.1 both sides |
Posted By: bbkon
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 4:35pm
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no power for sp looping, sure if you talk about basement players, high level short pips can loop shots that are way spinnier than your loops with imverted, also the power is generated by the sponge. some members dont know what they are talking about.
the fact you cant loop spinnier doesnt mean it cant be done, check the match zhan jian-ma and see how ma lin taste a sp loop.
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Posted By: tommyzai
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 4:43pm
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I use SP on FH via flipping/twiddling as needed. On two of my combos I have SP . . . Dr. Evil OX and Winning NP-8 on 1.0mm. They are FAST. There is a BIG difference in the way they feel and travel. They don't loop well, but they smash and chop much better than inverted. I think if I dedicated myself to using SP I would have a good game, but it's hard switching back and forth.
There are some advantages to pips . . . ------------- For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected] |
Posted By: Madbrazilian
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 5:18pm
Man that was below the belt.  ------------- Killerspin Diamond TX ST Killerspin Forza 4z 2.1 both sides |
Posted By: tommyzai
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 7:20pm
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Which members? Hey, we're all here to share and learn from the sharing.
1. Be nice. 2. Never say Never. I know a player who is disabled, uses a sandpaper paddle with a hole in it and smacks nearly unhittable loop drives. ------------- For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected] |
Posted By: longreachlooper
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 7:24pm
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Maybe this is Huang.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niWiTkjgAns - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niWiTkjgAns ------------- -Blade -Spinny verywell controlled stuff forehand -long pips or inverted or med. pips on backhand |
Posted By: Madbrazilian
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 8:50pm
Yea that's probably him. Can't really see his face though. there are some good matches of him in high quality on some of the killerspin dvd series. They are more recent as well so you get good examples of tactics and strokes against inverted players. Of course someone should double check that seeing as how I don't know what I'm talking about 
------------- Killerspin Diamond TX ST Killerspin Forza 4z 2.1 both sides |
Posted By: loop+loop
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 11:02pm
| I'm currently using the 802-40. My first short pips coming from playing inverted. And I'm flicking, chopping, smashing, power driving, loop driving, and even loops with it. No problem there. And all that after people telling me that I'm not a candidate for SP. Just go ahead, buy one, slap it on and try. Just bear in mind that the 802-40 can spin. |
Posted By: Madbrazilian
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 11:05pm
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Yea i have been very impressed with the 802-40. I'm thinking of using it on both sides. ------------- Killerspin Diamond TX ST Killerspin Forza 4z 2.1 both sides |
Posted By: tommyzai
Date Posted: 07/16/2007 at 11:18pm
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Try the Winning NP-8. It's hard to find, but if you want . . . Tommy Zai can hook you up. It's a great short pips with lots of speed and SPIN! DHS makes a good one I used to use . . . the 651. It can be found at: http://www.tabletennisonly.com/ Cole can also sell you a excellent Dawei short pip. I forget the model number, but it played well!!! ------------- For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected] |
Posted By: TT_Freak
Date Posted: 07/17/2007 at 7:02am
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Do keep in mind that Liu Guoliang had very strong loops despite using pips, though he prefered to just push to the corners and let his opponent open up for him.
------------- Violin F1 Actor 10g at 3 and 9 10g at 12 20g at the end of handle |
Posted By: Qtjoel
Date Posted: 07/20/2007 at 1:35pm
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Hey guys, how is clipper, raystorm, and flarestorm compared to speedy p.o.? With a stickier surface and a softer sponge would'nt it be harder to 'cancel' or reduce the spin? please give your feedback. ------------- joola express 1 joola express 2 avalox 770 - www.wtfoodge.com |
Posted By: tommyzai
Date Posted: 07/20/2007 at 1:43pm
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Hi!! I just ordered the following:
-Dawei 388-b-1 on 1.8mm -Friendship 802.40 on 1.8. I'm very excited to glue-sheet them up and try 'em out. Any predictions about how they will feel and play? ------------- For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected] |