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What do we mean by control?

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Topic: What do we mean by control?
Posted By: usagi
Subject: What do we mean by control?
Date Posted: 06/24/2008 at 7:00am
It seems that when I talk of control, it is pretty vague, at least to me... since control can be in terms of:

1.) how one can control/vary spin, and that can be in -
   a.) loops and drives (maybe this is not so much control as spin generation and gears)
   b.) pushes
   c.) chops
   d.) others?

2.) placement on table (left/right?, far/near)

3.) control when blocking

4.) how high the ball is (maybe more a question of throw? But i guess we want to control the throw of the ball...)

5.) others???

Do u think control in one aspect is correlated with control in other aspects for our equipment?  If not, when we rate on control (like on rubbers), which aspect are we talking about?

Do some types excel in a particular aspect?


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Fukuhara Special-FL: Bryce Speed + Tango
To test: Yasaka Offensive Gatien 7-ply: Bryce(FH) + Moristo-SP 1.9(BH) *sealing atm*



Replies:
Posted By: gekogark1212
Date Posted: 06/24/2008 at 7:22am
I tend to mention control as in the percentage of balls that land given similar shots...such as tango extrem has high control, due to its nice arc.

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(\__/)

(='.'=) But there's no sense crying over every mistake,

(")_(") You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.


Posted By: usagi
Date Posted: 06/24/2008 at 7:32am
Originally posted by gekogark1212 gekogark1212 wrote:

I tend to mention control as in the percentage of balls that land given similar shots...such as tango extrem has high control, due to its nice arc.
 
Hmm... yeah... but then... percentage might be different for different types of shots?  Like it might not do as well on pushes... Ermm And with things like short pips, I guess throwing arcs is not a specialty...
 
Confused Usagi Geek


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Fukuhara Special-FL: Bryce Speed + Tango
To test: Yasaka Offensive Gatien 7-ply: Bryce(FH) + Moristo-SP 1.9(BH) *sealing atm*


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 06/24/2008 at 8:08am
control = consistency on making the balls go at the other side of the table no matter wat type of shot you make


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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 06/24/2008 at 9:24am
Great post usagi....I was going to post something about "Control"  too.
 
As a beginner with new high tech equipment... (i used to play with 1970's rackets)  I have found that when manufactures or players describe "Control"......it may be something other than what I was thinking.  
 
For me.....I thought control reffered to being forgiving, like if i mis-hit a ball with bad stroke or hit off the edge of the paddle......i want the ball to hit the other side of the table still.    But as I realise what it may really mean to most is.....ability to spin, place, or play a desired shot as you are trying to. 
 
So,  as a beginner,  I want a blade and rubber to be very forgiving....making my actual control of my landing shot to be much higher.
 
This really confused me at first....how the word control was used about different products.  When I first started with a good setup....I was told to use a thinner sponge layer....I started out at 1.5 or 1.7.   Then I got a racket with 2.2 on it......I had control of where my ball went after I hit it with the thicker sponge.   So I actually had less control of where my ball went with the thinner sponge.  The racket with thinner sponge was too sensitive to my mistakes of hits.  
 
Still after 7 months now of using top of the line equipment.  I play so much better with 2.2 sponge than even some 2.0 sponges. 


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Posted By: fattchoi
Date Posted: 06/24/2008 at 9:31am
Originally posted by usagi usagi wrote:

Hmm... yeah... but then... percentage might be different for different types of shots?  Like it might not do as well on pushes... Ermm And with things like short pips, I guess throwing arcs is not a specialty...
 
Confused Usagi Geek
 
You are right. Some rubber/blade/setup gives good control for topspin or smashes or chopping or pushes or a combinations of those shots. I suppose a setup is considered good control if it let you do what you want with good control. And remember, most players will excel with certain type of play, eg defenders as opposed to offenders. I don't think there is a setup that will give good control for all types of play. There is always a compromise. It is up to you to know your kind of play and therefore look for the right rubber/blade to suit your play.
 
Take for example Steven Lee and his Xiom II sagaLOL Just last Tuesday night, he was showing off his new rubbers. I naughtily took his blade  with brand new rubbers and had a hit with it. I just love the control of his setup. So much so I had his Xiom II as an alternative in my mind. Tonight, he told me he can't handle the bounce and decided to sell the rubbers. That came as a  shock to me because I thought if I being such a low level player can handle it, how come him, being the No.1 player in our club cannot??? I would have bought them off him if he had not already sold to someone elseOuch
 
Cheers.
 


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Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club


Posted By: yuna
Date Posted: 06/24/2008 at 12:15pm
i agree with Rich. IMO, an equipment with higher control translate to it being more forgiving with
reference to ur strokes. it generally makes it easier technically to execute the shot that u had in mind.

have to consider the resultant effect of combining blade & rubber as well.
some just dun match up wz each other that well.



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Viscaria Tiffany
T-05
T-64


Posted By: tommyzai
Date Posted: 06/24/2008 at 12:16pm
Mu g/f stole all my ID, changed my online banking PIN#s, threw out all the food I like and replaced it with stuff she likes, erased my queue on Netflix and added chick flix, then set my alarm clock for 6AM. When I woke up in shock she yelled, in a heavy Chinese accent, "Take trash out NOW."

That's my definition of control. 

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For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected]


Posted By: dragon kid
Date Posted: 06/24/2008 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by fattchoi fattchoi wrote:

 
Take for example Steven Lee and his Xiom II sagaLOL He told me he can't handle the bounce and decided to sell the rubbers. That came as a  shock to me because I thought if I being such a low level player can handle it, how come him, being the No.1 player in our club cannot??? I would have bought them off him if he had not already sold to someone elseOuch
 
Cheers.
 


Fattchoi, in my earlier posts i have said that this rubber is unreliable in game/match situation against good players. You must be 100% execute the right technique for this rubber if not, it's not going to forgive your mistake. Usually this end up with the ball bouncing really high on touch stroke such as serve return and push, and you can easily hit the ball far far away from the table with your loops.. the best thing about his rubber is it's smash.. it's loud and unstoppable.. Tongue
The best player i see that can handle this rubber take his loop very very late when the ball drops just to avoid to make the loop fly off the table.. but that obviously is very difficult..


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655H3PClassicAcudaS1
'Nobody is Perfect. I am Nobody'


Posted By: dragon kid
Date Posted: 06/24/2008 at 1:49pm
Usagi,
Control:
1. Power of directing
2. Power of restraining


It's not my definition though. I read it on my dictionary.. Tongue
But makes sense even for TT.. Directing your strokes, your spin, your power. Restraining spin and power from your opponent..



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655H3PClassicAcudaS1
'Nobody is Perfect. I am Nobody'


Posted By: sidofmillenium
Date Posted: 06/24/2008 at 2:03pm
Insted of defining what control is...which is common sense...I'll tell you how you get control.
 
Lesser vibration...better control...(harder wood the better...even though you don't feel vibration on a lot of shots...carbon will add consistency)
 
Speed glue makes the rubber wet...which adds consistency through feel due to softness increasing dwell time and tension increasing sharpness on accuracy.
 
The grippier the topsheet....the more control you have over the ball's spin...tackier the topsheet...the more control you have on the speed.
 
Knowing what shot to hit before hitting it even at high speeds increases the consistency through lack of confusion thus no nervousness.
 
Looking at the ball instead of the opponent and the table helps the person figure out what spin there is on the ball by trajectory....how fast it is....and what exactly am I doing to it.


Posted By: asr1990
Date Posted: 06/24/2008 at 4:57pm

hmmmmmmmmmm!



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mizutani jun
tenergy
bryce speed fx
Will be trying Zeta soon


Posted By: doraemon
Date Posted: 06/24/2008 at 7:44pm
My definition of control:

1.  I am in control when I can put the ball anywhere I want to put it to (within +/- 1 cm) Wink.
2.  I am in control when I make my opponent run around trying to return the ball while I just stand close to the table directing the ball to any places far from the reach of my opponent.Evil%20Smile

Now seriously, I think of control as when I do every stroke the textbook way (perfect motion from backswing to contact to follow through) and it still lands on the table.  If I have to shorten the movement (due to faster equipment) or lengthen the movement (due to very slow equipment), then I am not in control.


Posted By: unisonus
Date Posted: 06/24/2008 at 9:58pm
An item has "good control" if a person of average skill commits a relatively low number of unforced errors when using that item. Thus, a Flextra/Allround Classic combo has better control than a Bryce/Schlager Carbon combo.


Posted By: gekogark1212
Date Posted: 06/24/2008 at 10:19pm
Originally posted by tommyzai tommyzai wrote:

Mu g/f stole all my ID, changed my online banking PIN#s, threw out all the food I like and replaced it with stuff she likes, erased my queue on Netflix and added chick flix, then set my alarm clock for 6AM. When I woke up in shock she yelled, in a heavy Chinese accent, "Take trash out NOW."

That's my definition of control. 
 
oh man, that's a tough defintion to beat ahaha.


-------------
(\__/)

(='.'=) But there's no sense crying over every mistake,

(")_(") You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.


Posted By: fattchoi
Date Posted: 06/25/2008 at 12:21am
Originally posted by gekogark1212 gekogark1212 wrote:

Originally posted by tommyzai tommyzai wrote:

Mu g/f stole all my ID, changed my online banking PIN#s, threw out all the food I like and replaced it with stuff she likes, erased my queue on Netflix and added chick flix, then set my alarm clock for 6AM. When I woke up in shock she yelled, in a heavy Chinese accent, "Take trash out NOW."

That's my definition of control. 
 
oh man, that's a tough defintion to beat ahaha.
 
Of course that is tough to beat. It is actually a definition for 'freak control'LOLLOLLOL
 
Cheers.


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Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club


Posted By: metalone
Date Posted: 06/25/2008 at 1:09am
Originally posted by fattchoi fattchoi wrote:

Originally posted by gekogark1212 gekogark1212 wrote:

Originally posted by tommyzai tommyzai wrote:

Mu g/f stole all my ID, changed my online banking PIN#s, threw out all the food I like and replaced it with stuff she likes, erased my queue on Netflix and added chick flix, then set my alarm clock for 6AM. When I woke up in shock she yelled, in a heavy Chinese accent, "Take trash out NOW."

That's my definition of control. 
 
oh man, that's a tough defintion to beat ahaha.
 
Of course that is tough to beat. It is actually a definition for 'freak control'LOLLOLLOL
 
Cheers.
Or Wife!


-------------
Gave up listing, too many changes.
Blade - Yes
BH - Rubber Red
FH - Rubber Black


Posted By: ajchien
Date Posted: 06/25/2008 at 2:25am
I was working an equipment booth back in the 1992 US Open. Zoran Primorac's coach came by to the booth and said that Primorac was interested in trying out a new carbon blade. The conversation went like this:
 
Coach: "Primorac wants to try these new carbon blades"
Booth:"Well, these are very fast and powerful blades you're choosing, they are not be right for Primorac because they might lack the control he needs."
Coach:"You will provide the power. Zoran will provide the control."
Booth:"Choose any blades you like."
 
 


Posted By: DeathAngel
Date Posted: 06/25/2008 at 2:40am
Originally posted by ajchien ajchien wrote:

I was working an equipment booth back in the 1992 US Open. Zoran Primorac's coach came by to the booth and said that Primorac was interested in trying out a new carbon blade. The conversation went like this:
 
Coach: "Primorac wants to try these new carbon blades"
Booth:"Well, these are very fast and powerful blades you're choosing, they are not be right for Primorac because they might lack the control he needs."
Coach:"You will provide the power. Zoran will provide the control."
Booth:"Choose any blades you like."
 
 


I really agree with what his coach sais. I find that control is pretty much mastering flawless technique and consistency with your technique. Obviously it goes for speed, power, and spin as the same thing as u get better those things increase. For example, you have been using Fast Blade and Rubbers for 1-2 years now and you switch to a slow blade/rubber combo, and all your shots hit the net, does this mean it has less control? The package sais not, but since u are used to faster equipment, you will not be able to control the slow stuff. Same goes for vice versa slow EQ to fast EQ. Its really hard to say what control is and how it can be put into equipment descriptions.

-------------
Korbel ST
H3 Neo 2.2
Desto F3 2.0

USA: 1522
CAN: 809


Posted By: fattchoi
Date Posted: 06/25/2008 at 3:03am
Originally posted by DeathAngel DeathAngel wrote:

Originally posted by ajchien ajchien wrote:

I was working an equipment booth back in the 1992 US Open. Zoran Primorac's coach came by to the booth and said that Primorac was interested in trying out a new carbon blade. The conversation went like this:
 
Coach: "Primorac wants to try these new carbon blades"
Booth:"Well, these are very fast and powerful blades you're choosing, they are not be right for Primorac because they might lack the control he needs."
Coach:"You will provide the power. Zoran will provide the control."
Booth:"Choose any blades you like."
 
 


I really agree with what his coach sais. I find that control is pretty much mastering flawless technique and consistency with your technique. Obviously it goes for speed, power, and spin as the same thing as u get better those things increase. For example, you have been using Fast Blade and Rubbers for 1-2 years now and you switch to a slow blade/rubber combo, and all your shots hit the net, does this mean it has less control? The package sais not, but since u are used to faster equipment, you will not be able to control the slow stuff. Same goes for vice versa slow EQ to fast EQ. Its really hard to say what control is and how it can be put into equipment descriptions.
 
Yep, this pretty much sums it all up. I have a rpb bat with Tenergy on one side which I am pretty used to already. And then I slapped on a piece of Solcion considered one of the best control fast rubber by Butterfly on the back side. I played really nicely with the Tenergy but kept hitting into the net with the Solcion.
 
Cheers.


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Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club


Posted By: DeathAngel
Date Posted: 06/25/2008 at 4:24am
i find u and I fattchoi agree on many things LOL

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Korbel ST
H3 Neo 2.2
Desto F3 2.0

USA: 1522
CAN: 809


Posted By: Peter C
Date Posted: 06/25/2008 at 6:11am
 I agree, control will vary from player to player based on their technical ability and consistency.

The better your technique, consistency, the greater the range of equipment you'll find you can use, as well.

The key is finding a set up, that you feel comfortable using and play your full range of shots consistently with.


Posted By: fattchoi
Date Posted: 06/25/2008 at 8:05am
Originally posted by DeathAngel DeathAngel wrote:

i find u and I fattchoi agree on many things LOL
 
Great minds think alikeBig%20smile
 
Cheers.
 


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Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 06/25/2008 at 9:11am
tommy, i heard from a reliable source that when that person i know called you up at your house phone your gf was yelling pretty mad at the background hahahaha! you henpecked bf!! 

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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: MildSeven
Date Posted: 06/26/2008 at 4:44am
Control means nothing.

I use the control statstic to infer information about the equipment I am considering based what what I think "control" means in the context of each manufacturer's marketing materials.

If you handed me two rackets, one much faster and one much slower than the one I currently use, I would definately find the faster one easier to control although its control would be rated lower.



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