42mm ball?!?
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Topic: 42mm ball?!?
Posted By: beeray1
Subject: 42mm ball?!?
Date Posted: 09/02/2008 at 7:01pm
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I heard on another forum that Sharara announced to the german ITTF site that they are testing the 42mm ball !!! He also said they are going to raise the net size, and that if sharara wins the election next year thsese things will take place. Has anyone heard anything about this???
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Replies:
Posted By: JRSDallas
Date Posted: 09/02/2008 at 7:08pm
| This is too much. He needs to quit f**king with the game and let people redevelop after the already significant changes. |
Posted By: beeray1
Date Posted: 09/02/2008 at 7:09pm
| this is talk for as soon as next year it sounds like too.. |
Posted By: rpbnakata
Date Posted: 09/02/2008 at 7:28pm
| This man Sharara must have some sh*t inside his brain... |
Posted By: Nutriment6464
Date Posted: 09/02/2008 at 8:18pm
| man there must be somewhere we can send him a letter or speak with him... gosh... if we could sign a giant petition on mytt it would be awesum xD... Seriously, I hope he won't win the elction because of these fu**** rules |
Posted By: liXiao
Date Posted: 09/02/2008 at 8:24pm
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42mm ball is rarely used except for a league of older tt players in Japan who play " Ra-Ji Ba-Ru" Or literally "Large Ball. Which is usually only played with pimpled rubbers (Yasaka Extend LB for example) So using this for real play is preposterous. ------------- Gewo Aruna Hinoki Carbon Gewo Nexxus EL Pro 53 SuperSelect Yinhe Qing |
Posted By: Beer Belly
Date Posted: 09/02/2008 at 8:25pm
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He's up for re-election next year. I strongly suggest that we initiate proceedings to stop this man! Otherwise, most ITTF presidents stay on for life until they die in office!
------------- http://www.pipfacts.info/ - Welcome to the Dark Side BTY Joo Se Hyuk | Tenergy64 2.1 | TSP P1-R 1mm Chop til you drop baby! |
Posted By: Schlager
Date Posted: 09/02/2008 at 8:26pm
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Large ball is played with a 44 mm ball.. Have yet to see a 42 mm..
Please enlighten me if I'm wrong.. ------------- Blade: Butterfly M. Maze Off ST Rubbers: Bluefire M2 2.0 |
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 09/02/2008 at 8:50pm
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Well...it will slow down the game even more and make people have bigger muscles and play with heavier paddles.
Will footwork be relatively less important? ------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: bowebj
Date Posted: 09/02/2008 at 8:59pm
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idc either way im still gonna super slam em to hell. might help me out, maybe not. |
Posted By: beeray1
Date Posted: 09/02/2008 at 9:16pm
i was thinking the same about the 44 mm ball, but i dont think hes ready to implement that until 2010 
really though, he CANT be re-elected. Everyones been sheisted out of their speed glue, their rubbers, in some cases their blades, (speed adjustment), and now their boosters and tuners which everyone JUST started using to replace speedglue, and on top of all that this SOB is going to take away the 40mm ball, which is already a size increase, and raise the net? come on man... too far. Someone assassinate this guy or something, please.
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Posted By: JimT
Date Posted: 09/02/2008 at 10:44pm
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There was this famous Jewish joke about a guy who was asking his rabbi how he should treat his sick horse. So rabbi kept telling him smth like - try water from this well - try orange vinegar with apple sauce - try cow piss mixed with vodka etc etc. Finally the guy comes back and tells rabbi that his horse has died. - Oh that's too bad, - says the rabbi. - I still had so many excellent treatment ideas left! Sharara is even worse than that rabbi since his constant flow of stupid ideas is affecting millions, not just one poor animal. ------------- Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
Posted By: checkmilu
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 1:10am
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You guys are examples of change resistance.
It's always hard to change, but if it's good then we have to change.
You familiar with small ball so don't want larger ball. Any one here have try the old small ball and want to change back to the 38mm ball? No? I'm sure most of people love the new 40mm ball, it's easier to see, more feelling, less stupid mistakes...
Same to the bigger ball of 42-44mm, depend on its weigh, bouncing characteristics...the game still be very fast but at the same time more spectator friendly, people sitting at the back of a large stadium or infront of TV still understand and enjoy the games. It'd make our sport be more popular, more TV coverage, more $$$ so the game will be more competitive, more top players from Europe, Australia, America...so it's good for every one...think out side the box guys ------------- milu |
Posted By: liXiao
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 1:13am
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Not only that. I only play with 38mm ball, and 40mm ball sucksss. ------------- Gewo Aruna Hinoki Carbon Gewo Nexxus EL Pro 53 SuperSelect Yinhe Qing |
Posted By: checkmilu
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 1:18am
That's why you are modera-tor, NOT innova-tor  ------------- milu |
Posted By: Hookshot
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 1:43am
Game is still fast with the 44mm ball? LOL Better buy one and try it. Not the same game with 44mm. Kind of like baseball with wiffle balls and plastic bats.
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Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 2:38am
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there is a saying that goes:
"the discomfort of change is less painful than the alternative"
note: after a couple millions edits I think I got it right...
whatever happens I'll adapt and play the game  ------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: theman
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 2:48am
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omg 44mm!! u gotta be kidding me, when i saw one of these at astore, i was thinking, are we playing volleyball or something? good god, this will be slow as
------------- i lost my racquet Schlager u beast http://www.youtube.com/MDSguy" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/MDSguy |
Posted By: gekogark1212
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 3:28am
That is VERY optimistic thinking...what if it fails, just as the 40mm ball did? Instead of getting more people to play the sport, even more will think of the sport as a joke (since there is little difficultly for them to pick up a paddle and start playing tennis on the table). Also, with a larger radius, the spin will drop off significantly again. So all the services will be pointless, and more emphasis would be place on getting the ball high enough to smash. Finally, CAN JOO SEE HYUK BE BEATEN!?????? Good god, with a slower ball, he'd be able to chop all day until your arms fall off. ------------- (\__/) (='.'=) But there's no sense crying over every mistake, (")_(") You just keep on trying till you run out of cake. |
checkmilu wrote:Posted By: fatcomet
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 3:30am
| Maybe if the manufacturers made their balls exactly 40 mm and not 39.5 mm as Shararar claims in that article, this would appease him for a while. |
Posted By: Hookshot
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 3:30am
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Theman, You should get one to try! It is soooooo slow, you wont beleive it.  |
Posted By: Vikroda
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 3:31am
Increase to 42mm? Might as well increase the ball size to 2.5", increase the table size so we can stand on it, and replace the rubber on the rackets with string ... wait, there's already a sport just like that. [/sarcasm off] |
Posted By: theman
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 3:32am
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hookshot, u cant compare it to hardbat with INVERTED pips! [the grooves to pips but have no pips at all lol , cornealeau french brand] with a dodgy 40mm ball from kmart and likewise to garks statement, joo's venomous forehands wont be as poisonous to the attacker ------------- i lost my racquet Schlager u beast http://www.youtube.com/MDSguy" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/MDSguy |
Posted By: pablogilberto
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 3:37am
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Well, if the change is inevitable, i don't think it's change that's enough to kill the sport. Whatever the change - Manufacturers and Players alike, including myself will ultimately adapt. 15 years from now, paddlers will probably not remember this discussion. |
Posted By: TT_Freak
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 4:39am
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This will reduce the effect of spin, meaning that it will be easier to play defense and hence result in longer rallies and well constructed points. This means that topspin-bashing the ball anywhere on the table would no longer be an option, and intelligent play would be more rewarded (ALA Samsonov, Ma Lin).
------------- Violin F1 Actor 10g at 3 and 9 10g at 12 20g at the end of handle |
Posted By: nicefrog
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 4:47am
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Well I don't know about you guys but I REFUSE to play the game with anything larger than a 40mm ball, now if he was talking 38 or even setting the world on fire and going DOWN size to 36mm, well that's more like it :D, but I would be happy enough with 38 :), 42 or 44 you know where he can stick that (if it fits, lol) ------------- |
Posted By: Nutriment6464
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 6:49am
| seriously, as I said once, when you ask non tt player what they think about tt, they'll say it's a damn fast sport, you can't even see the ball... well it's gonna be dissapointing for them t watch people playing with 42... and worst with 44! Imo the game is perfect like that...now, at least for the moment, they should just let players adapt and see what's going on with the pros... |
Posted By: Ranger-man
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 7:08am
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If anyone thinks that the game will be just as fast with 42mm, they should try it out. I have played with the 44mm ball and its very very slow. Also, its hard to get a lot of spin on it, because it starts to slow down much sooner than te 40mm, also it travels slower, so by the time it gets to the opponents end, it will have lost a lot of rpm. What does this mean? It means that while the game will have slowed down, as far as the attackers are concerned, even the defensive choppers won't be able to impart as much spin on it as they could on the 40mm ball. I still prefer the 38mm ball, it was the best. I prefer the 11 point games though. So, we do accept change, but the changes which are for the better. ------------- Darker Speed 90 10mm: Dawei IQUL Ahinoki Lutz Spruce Jpen: 729 SuperFX Member: 1-ply Hinoki Club Violin/Acoustic Clan The speed of a Rhino and the power of a Gazelle! |
Posted By: nicefrog
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 7:19am
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Grrrrrr this makes me angry enough to punch the ITTF :P, twice!,
Once for payback for last time they changed the ball :). The 40mm ball took so much spin and power out of the game it's allready a grandmas game what more do they want? our souls!~?
------------- |
Posted By: turtle
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 8:48am
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they should make the ball the same size as a tennis ball. can u imagine that, there be hardly any spin left.
if anything, the net shhould be a bit higher, its too low as it is. when its higher, u will then have to arc the ball higher, gettin u in better and longer topspin rallies. no more of those cheap smashes. ------------- Defence!!! |
Posted By: addoydude
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 8:50am
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You know I've been thinking about it, and maybe it's not so bad as it seems. I mean 40 to 42 is even a less percentage increase than 38 to 40. The way you here it described here is that when you chop or topspin the ball, by the time it reaches the other side of the table it will be no spin! Come on, guys. There may be a tiny spin reduction but I'm sure if you loop a 42mm ball with say Inspirit Quattro 35mm, it will still land on the other side with a kick.
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Posted By: lecridupongiste
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 9:00am
http://de.ittf.com/news/d/v/2008/08/44f683a84163b3523afe57c2e008bc8c/8/ - The original and http://www.ittf.com/_front_page/ittf_full_story1.asp?ID=16257 - the english translation . This guy is nuts. I miss the 38mm ball. I miss the 21 points. I sincerely hope he won't be reelected next year. |
Posted By: Low Tek
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 9:24am
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Does anyone have an actual ITTF website link where he states this? Or is all of this just rumors? Is there an ITTF.de? ------------- http://atlantatabletennis.com - Atlanta Table Tennis - News, Commentary, Photos | |
Posted By: lecridupongiste
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 9:39am
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Well, BOTH links I just posted are on the ITTF website. |
Posted By: Low Tek
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 9:45am
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Ahh my bad, I guess I overlooked those links thinking they were part of your signature.
------------- http://atlantatabletennis.com - Atlanta Table Tennis - News, Commentary, Photos | |
Posted By: manyaku88
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 10:01am
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not only is it bigger but it's lighter, instead of 2.7gr the 40mm has, the 44mm is 2.2-2.4gr ------------- Blade: Bty BalsaCarbo X5 FL FH Bty Tenergy 05 2.1 BH: Palio Aeolus 45* 2.2 |
Posted By: crs2
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 10:07am
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I believe he will be elected and will change the sport as he damn pleases. And there's nothing anybody in this world can do about it. Do you agree? Where was the protest against these measures now? What national federation complained? How many players signed the petition against the ban? People are sheep and they go where the shepherd leads them. That is why they elect a president so they don't have to get involved ever again.Why is it so important for the sport to become more popular? Isn't it already? Why should the ball be more visible on the screen (btw, 2mm won't make the ball more visible) or the net higher? Why should the halls be even more packed with spectators? Paris Worlds 2003 wasn't packed enough? Why change a thing THAT WORKS?
This man has to understand something: Table tennis will never be the most popular sport in the world! And that is OK with me. Leave this game alone.
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Posted By: Low Tek
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 10:42am
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Well I emailed Adham Sharara directly and he confirmed that these changes are being discussed, but he also said that "there is no current proposal at the moment to increase the size of the ball." These changes are just discussions at this point, and even if they became official proposals, there would be "a series of experiments would have to be conducted and a long time frame would be in order before any such change would take place." So no worries yet. If AND when the proposal becomes a reality, we can all bitch about it then. =] ------------- http://atlantatabletennis.com - Atlanta Table Tennis - News, Commentary, Photos | |
Posted By: nicefrog
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 10:48am
It will loose at least 15% spin and speed, much more than anyone ever gained with speed glue ------------- |
Posted By: nicefrog
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 10:51am
Damm straight!, it will never be as popular as tennis untill they give you a million dollars to win a tournament and make the girls wear skirts, well ok they don't in tennis anymore but still :) it was allready popular when they stopped so they didn't need it anymore. I don't care if it never gets famous, that's part of the charm ------------- |
Posted By: beeray1
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 11:11am
Sure, there is no current proposal, but do we want him to do the same thing they are doing with boosters/tuners. Let us know right after we have gotten used to them, that it wont be legal next week? come on, this guy is a joke. The fact that it is being discussed right now by us instead of the year he decides to do it is probably for the best i think, it wont hop up on our backs like a lion hunting.. just like this booster/tuner thing did. Plus you know he can accelerate those tests, he just wants the game slow. The players opinion doesn't even matter anymore. The only reason we 'flock like sheep' or whatever is because no one wants to stand up and do anything or take any initiative. but anyways, We'll know about it ahead of time, because you KNOW he is just the person to enforce that kind of thing.
Also, all the people who are defending the 42-44mm ball, have OBVIOUSLY never played with one. The fact that its lighter AND bigger means not only is it slower from the size, but it floats just that much longer in the air because of the weight tacked on. We might as well all become defenders, because thats who will dominate now. You dont even need to be a good one, just junk chop back all day long. Plus you can squeeze into those things with very minimal effort, meaning when you do hit hard, the ball collapses- and they crack really easily. I dont care if you have WLQ's FH, you wont be able to put any speed on that ball. Period.
thanks.
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Posted By: pablogilberto
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 11:18am
Where'd you get this data? any valid samples or just throwing a number here? |
Posted By: lecridupongiste
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 11:19am
+1 He did exactly the same for the 11 points. And for the 40mm ball. And for frictionless long pips. And for speedgluing. And for boosters. How could anyone believe him ? |
Posted By: Heimdallalso
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 11:20am
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What JimT said.
------------- NEXY Lissom st 85g fh/ Andro Impuls Speed max bh/ Palio Flying Dragon 1.8 |
Posted By: notfound123
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 11:33am
Funny thing is.. that's exactly his goal as he's a defender himself. He admitted that he wants to see defenders winning something. |
Posted By: nicefrog
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 11:34am
The 38-40 lost about 15% and air resitance gets worse as size increases, like say 2mm bigger from 38-40 has less effect than 2mm from 40-42. Same reason why cars use more fuel at 110km/h rather than 95 even tho you are getting there faster you still use more. I'm willing to be corrected by a scientist but you can be sure it will be around 15%. Also if anyone can remember the 38mm balls used to last almost forever. The 40's are lucky to last a few games, I bet the 42's break any time you give one a fair smack ------------- |
Posted By: beeray1
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 11:39am
aaaaahhhhh.... so the truth comes out now. I didn't know he said that.. haha he's not good enough of a player so he uses his power to win more instead of training. lol... t,=o---------------...-- (x.x)
(i cant do that crap, but that picture = shoot me in the head)
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Posted By: kenneyy88
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 11:40am
| its a lot harder to defend with a bigger ball. |
Posted By: notfound123
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 11:44am
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Do you want to heighten the net and increase the ball size to slow down the game and to make it more comprehensible? Yes, I want to bring back the defensive players in our sport. |
Posted By: Hookshot
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 11:50am
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I think Alot of people need to go out and buy a 44mm ball. Then you will see how drastic the difference is. If a 42mm ball is 1/3 this difference, it is still much bigger than 38mm to 40mm. The real problem is the reason he is making the changes. To try and stop domination by one country earned through hard work and training. How would you feel if it was "your" country?  |
Posted By: notfound123
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 11:56am
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what do you all think his chances are of making it happen? |
Posted By: beeray1
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 12:00pm
AMEN! Everyone always hates on china, but if you have so many complaints about them dominating everything that is TT, then why dont you go out and work as hard as they do at it. Nobody else trains like they do, and they have more people to be good at it.. so big population + unparalleled training methods and tactics= domination of the sport. If a country can train like they can, then the numbers are less important, and you narrow the gap considerably, if not close it. They live together, come on! thats just their dedication outdoing everyone elses.
And bring back the defenders? i dont get it, bringing back the defenders by giving them an edge above everyone else is no way to bring back defenders. That's not fair to them.. well atleast the good honorable ones. There are world class choppers, sure not as many, but that's because there are not nearly as many chopper friendly coaches..not because the ball is too small. the 40mm ball is a happy medium for both attackers and defenders. 38mm was geared slightly toward attacking, and defenders had to have a quicker eye... this 42-44mm ball will make it shooting fish in a barrel for any defender because the ball is so much slower.
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Posted By: dimitris
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 12:41pm
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Anybody knows who votes on this election and how we can influence the vote? If we, the participants of the sport, do not have a saying in this, it seems to me that the procedures are not very democratic...
------------- Darker Tanpan, fh 729 higher 2.0mm, bh 729 geospin 2.0mm http://mytabletennis.net/Forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28707 - My for sale thread |
Posted By: pablogilberto
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 12:46pm
An online petition could probably help! Anybody who thinks this is a good idea, we can start it here in MyTT. |
Posted By: saurabh
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 1:03pm
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this man seems to be too bossessed with the ball things. crazy balls...all balls in his head...
------------- ------ Blade :Stiga Offensive Classic FH: COPPA JO Gold red BH: Butterfly Sriver EL black |
Posted By: pablogilberto
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 1:05pm
| Next change: 5.5x9.5 tables!! |
Posted By: saurabh
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 1:07pm
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so the if all these things change we all will have to get oversize blades.. :( that's a sad story actually. ------------- ------ Blade :Stiga Offensive Classic FH: COPPA JO Gold red BH: Butterfly Sriver EL black |
Posted By: dragon kid
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 1:35pm
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Why don't he try tennis ball and let us TT players play with shorter tennis racquet? When will ITTF hold a meeting to replace this man.. he is abusing the power given to him by us.. TT grass roots players.. Let's start a new federation..  ------------- 'Nobody is Perfect. I am Nobody' |
Posted By: dragon kid
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 1:47pm
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Actually i played around with 38 mm ball the other day when my teammate brought one and that little ball is lightning fast!! lot faster than the 40 mm. So if they bring the 42 mm ball in the game will significantly loose speed. But too much change in such short time (11 points, no hiding serve, speed glue ban, tuner ban, etc) is detrimental to the game. Because you have to adjust so much into your game.. look at Basketball, tennis, badminton, football, there is not one sport that make so many changes like TT.. It hurts players the most. The current glue ban increase the price rubber significantly not to mention we have to adjust our technique to the new rubbers.. then this we have to adjust to a new size ball.. OMG.. This will not make TT more popular but more likely makes TT lose its already relatively thin popularity.. *sigh* ------------- 'Nobody is Perfect. I am Nobody' |
Posted By: takaaki
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 2:57pm
i agree--to a certain extent. and i think if you asked sharara about it he would say exactly what you said. but i feel he is actually acting under a false impression (that the ittf has had for a while now, at least since '88-'89) that changes to the rules (on equipment, in this case) will somehow mitigate the total lockdown that the chinese have on the game right now. and his post-olympic statements on his "concerns," as he put it, confirm my feelings. as i see it, the only equipment rule change that might mitigate chinese dominance for a short while (and only for a short while) would be to ban sticky rubber. if you watch the games closely between the chinese and the rest of the world you can see clearly that they are bothered by the spin from the sticky rubber the chinese play with. if you only rarely, or worse, never practice against chinese rubber, you absolutely, positively will have problems with it. if you don't practice against it, you will have a really hard time anticipating how much spin is on the ball or how the ball will "kick" when it hits your side of the table. so, a lot of times, you think you're in position for the next ball, but it drops below your racket. or sometimes you think you can hit the next ball off the bounce only to have it curve on you in some funny way and spin right off your racket. those aren't stupid mistakes--it's the rubber. chinese rubber is just too unpredictable if you are not used to it. so, if sharara wants to lessen chinese dominance, he should push for a ban on sticky rubber, but that would be way too obvious, so i guess he'll push for a bigger ball instead. and the reason for that is the bigger ball will reduce the spin and speed, and, therefore, the unpredictability of the chinese rubber. but that will only be temporary, cuz faster, spinnier chinese rubber will come out shortly after the 42 mm ball, if that rule change does come about. also, there's been a lot of rancor on this forum towards prez sharara for the changes "he" made to the game, but they were voted on by a committee, NOT decided on by him. tv... y'know, i'm a little bit of an oldtimer. i've been playing and watching this came off and on for a little more than 20 yrs. and i can tell you that the game has never been televised as much as it is now (since sharara took over), save for a brief time in the early to mid 80's. nor has the shotmaking been this good. also, in the past, he's often cited "tv" as a justification for rule changes. how do we know he's not telling the truth? maybe the tv people are in fact telling him, "look, if you want us to televise this, then we need you guys to change this, that and the other thing..." you never know... |
Posted By: nicefrog
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 5:52pm
Dragon, a few years ago the rules were changing so much and so badly in Formula one the teams told the federation look!. if you don't get your act together we the teams will start a new federation and make our own rules. There is no reason we can't do that with table tennis if we have to. So don't pannic :). We can have the ITTF for the aging players and ITTF members that like 50mm balls, long pimples and giant nets and tables. Then we can have the RITTF, Rebel International Table Tennis Fanatics :P and play with 38mm balls, 1.8mm long pimples and even speed glue if you want and use all the original rules for the game as it was intended :) ------------- |
Posted By: Peter C
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 6:37pm
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I feel that Adham Sharara is a misguided fool and his comments lead me to conclude that he and the ITTF have lost the plot. The ITTF remind of the Labour Government running Britain, i.e. full of half baked, hair brained ideas; that anyone with an once of comon sense, can see are daft and ill conceived. It's like the lunatics running the asylum. Yet it wouldn't surprise if they introduce a higher net and larger ball, in the misguided belief it will end Chinese domination at the higher level. The simple truth is the Chinese dominate because they are fanatical about the sport and analyse it to the nth degree. When the 40mm ball was introduced they did tests to see which sponge thickness would be required to perform similar to 2mm rubber using the 38mm ball and the answer was 2.2mm rubber; hence the proliferation of 2.2mm Chinese rubber. They also have the training techniques and investment to maintain their dominance. If the net is heightened or the ball increased in size, it is foolish to think the Chinese will not find something that will work for their game. To me raising the net will fundamentally change the game, because short serves will have to be adjusted to clear the net. Sometimes I think the ITTF forget that every change in net or ball size means a lot of expense to clubs and players around the world. Personally, I don't think changing the ball size for a second time in 10 years is a smart move. To me it suggests a change for changes sake, rather than being beneficial to you and I. Are regular changes that make the sport more expensive to players and clubs wise? |
Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 8:54pm
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Friends, The very best way to improve our sport is to just perfect the ball now in use. Listen to the reforming idea from a brilliant table tennis mind, Mr. Istvan Korpa. http://google.com/search?q=site:ettu.org%20korpa%20heavier - http://google.com/search?q=site:ettu.org%20korpa%20heavier "The Ball should be some HEAVIER, with a diameter of 40mm". I`d gladly subscribe his thinkings as to heavier balls. I have tryed a lot of 40mm "weighty" balls and I found 2.85 gr balls should be the optimum, provided they are not overly "stony" to feel. The heavier balls are producing a stronger perception on strokes and, hence, better control throughout a rally.(longer rallies becomes possible). Also, HB is featuring a wonderful lifespan !! HB ought to be introduced first at major competitions nominated by ITTF I believe in salutary power of heavier balls upon the sport of table tennis |
Posted By: dragon kid
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 9:41pm
Yeeeyyy.. let's do that.. I vote you as the 1st chairman of RITTF, nicefrog..  ------------- 'Nobody is Perfect. I am Nobody' |
Posted By: tommyzai
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 9:50pm
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What else will the ITTF try to help the Europeans beat the Chinese? Maybe impose a height requirement? But that would still leave Wang Liqin! The size of the balls won't effect us in North America because we aren't in the top whatever anyway! However, I strongly believe the greatest player to ever live is hiding somewhere in the USA or frozen in the Canadian tundra. ------------- For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected] |
Posted By: easyfiji
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 9:59pm
| I have supported most of the rule changes thus far. I was in favor of the glue ban as long as there were tuners. But now with no tuners and the prospect of a 42mm ball I think Sharara has outlived his usefulness. Time to cast him aside. |
Posted By: beeray1
Date Posted: 09/03/2008 at 11:52pm
yeah i agree, he's probably chinese
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Posted By: esnift
Date Posted: 09/04/2008 at 2:45am
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Change isn't always a good thing and thus requires resistance. The comments about how much and increase in ball diameter are roughly correct. I didn't do the calculations but the ability of an object to spin is affected by it's radius squared and wind resistance is affected by area so even though it is a seemingly small increase it has a large effect. I would have to agree that the voice of the common players needs to be heard by those in charge. I'd sign a petition if it were available. ------------- YE Hurricane III Tenergy 05fx |
Posted By: jackwong23
Date Posted: 09/04/2008 at 3:24am
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sharara is a moron. He does not even know how to play table tennis. He has ruined the sport of table tennis. Why change the rule of the game to limit china's domination of table tennis? Did they change the rule so that USA might be less dominant in basketball, swimming and track and field? If they want to make the ball larger so that the audiences can see the ball better - this is a weak excuse. In olmpic sport, such as pistol shooting, no one can even see the flight of the bullets, but no else seem to complain at all. It is only retarts like sharara and the ITTf officials who can not see the important issues. Leave the game as it is, but try to promote the game and help other nations to improve their level of table tennis. IT doesnt matter what changes the ITTF make, china are still going to dominate table tennis for decades to come.
rants over.
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Posted By: nicefrog
Date Posted: 09/04/2008 at 4:07am
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You want to know something funny, instead of just keeping on complaining here about the 42 mm ball I actually wrote the big boss himself a letter about how unhappy I was and he wrote straight back and said Keep on smiling and why not use the 38mm ball if that's the way you like to enjoy the game!:), Imagine that. Quite a fair comment considering how upset I was :). Except that the ball is illegal for offical play (and they are almost impossible to buy).
He made no comment about the offical ball size (and I asked him to please tell me it wasnt true about the 42mm ball) so I guess it is being considered. But he said just use whatever you like in any case and enjoy the game
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Posted By: Hookshot
Date Posted: 09/04/2008 at 4:18am
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This is part of what I wrote on another forum about some of the changes. The worst that could happen, the IOC would take table tennis out. Then China could have a World Table Tennis tourney. I think the pressure would build to get it back in with different leaders. I am not sure if the ITTF or the IOC has more power. If I was on the IOC, I would personally be shocked to hear a leader of a INTERNATIONAL organization say they want to take a world leader off the pedistal they have earned. Read ITTF again,,,"INTERNATIONAL". It is not "INTERNATIONAL" at heart when they can try to hurt a country in fair competition. Table tennis has been in chaos for a year or two now. At first I thought there was a $$$ link someplace. Now the truth comes out. The only money involved is OURS and the Manufacturers paying for a corrupt idea to get China. We have been lied to about the reason for some of the changes. I still maintain equipment rule changes will NOT make a difference, China will adapt and still rule. I don't care. They are the best right now. The ITTF would do much better to show countrys how to expand table tennis in other countries. Let Chinese immigrants play for other countries. What better way to get their training methods out to the rest of the world. If I had a great Chinese player to play, I would be like a sponge and learn everything I could. So would all the young people I am sure. Eventually the rest of the world will catch up by honest means, not a forced handicap on one country. This is a most corrupt display of power and a great backwards movement to table tennis. I wish everyone would stop arguing about all the changes, bigger ball, etc and focus on the real problem. The REASON for all the changes. This is simple ABUSE of power.  _________________ Modified Seemiller Grip Home made blade Venus, Peace Keeper, OX |
Posted By: Peter C
Date Posted: 09/04/2008 at 4:46am
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Igorponger Istvan Korpa is a much clearer thinker than Adham Shahara and the ITTF and it's a pity they don't don't have the wisdom to listen to him or his ideas. Regarding the weight of the 40mm ball, i have noticed that DHS balls seem to have thicker walls than other makes, feel slightly heavier and play more consistently in the bounce as a result. I agree with his comments about younger players playing with equipment that is too fast for them, which in turn inhibits the development of their technical skills. |
Posted By: asr1990
Date Posted: 09/04/2008 at 7:14am
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wow sharara is really ruining the game and i really cant understand the changes
this could cause alot of people to quit the game which is obviously not a good thing
------------- mizutani jun tenergy bryce speed fx Will be trying Zeta soon |
Posted By: pongcrazy
Date Posted: 09/04/2008 at 7:24am
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Table Tennis is slowly on its way to becoming Ping Pong 
Posted By: Swiff
Date Posted: 09/04/2008 at 9:46am
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Half of me would totally be disgusted with this change. There will be a large different feeling with a 42 mm ball. A big weight change and would just feel odd. I think the change from 38 to 40 was adequate and the net hight seems perfect too. But on the other hand, this change would be ideal if the ITTF is wanting to make table tennis more of a specetator sport. People would see the ball easier, possibly be able to see the spin, and would notice the net more.
In other words, in my opinion I think this change would stink for most competitors, but attract more viewers. ------------- 
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Posted By: JimT
Date Posted: 09/04/2008 at 10:49am
One guy on another forum has commented that he plays for a Swiss club which is a home/testing ground for Dr. Neuebauer, and he once came to the club with a 50 mm ball and gave it to everyone to fool around. After they all had a go and were completely disgusted, he laughed and said "welcome to the future of table tennis"! ------------- Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
Posted By: SmilyCancer
Date Posted: 09/04/2008 at 6:35pm
Let me put this into the correct perspective: http://de.ittf.com/news/d/v/2008/08/44f683a84163b3523afe57c2e008bc8c/7/
"We've tested the 42mm-ball and wait for the results [as many players complained about the quality of the 40mm balls]"
Raising the net until [read: maximum] 1cm is always a topic. However, we'll not change the rules until the players had time enough get used to the prior changes. He also speaks about the reasons, gives some examples, etc.. but nothing definite, just ideas. Folks, do your research before you spread gossip and start wild debates about the if's and when's before you don't even know what it is all about. Thanks. |
Posted By: Henry Hou
Date Posted: 09/04/2008 at 8:54pm
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How about basketball size? ------------- Main:Timo Boll Limited edition(FH:G3 2.1 BH: Tenergy 25 2.1) Spare1.Timo boll ZLF(FH:G3 2.1 BH: G3 FX 2.1) Spare2.Timo Boll ALC(FH: G3 2.1 BH:ROXON 450 max) |
Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 09/04/2008 at 9:11pm
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Below is what Istvan Korpa suggests: keep the ball at 40mm but make it heavier, and also limit the sponge thickness to 1.7-1.8mm. He seems to agree with Sharara that the game is too fast and out of control and that additional measures need to be taken to slow it down. What do you think? "Many young players do not have technical abilities to control the ball, the playing materials are often too fast for them. It all started in men table tennis by copying the game of Chinese stars - serve and 3rd ball attack, but for this you should have perfect technique and ball control which most of our young players do not have. Coaches of course stimulated the efficient game with third ball attack, but the result is often lack of control. In the present situation I think we should work much more on control in the game. The ban of gluing is for me a good thing, but it will not solve the problem - new rubbers and new blades will for sure replace the gluing and the game will stay as fast as it is. In my opinion it would be good to make the game a little bit slower and the only way I think would be to reduce the thickness of the sponge to 1,7-1,8 mm. At the same time it would be necessary to make the ball a little bit heavier - the present 40 mm ball is bouncing unevenly into height depending on technique of the opponent and the quality of the ball, I think mainly because the ball is too light. For better control of the ball on the racket and evenly rebound the ball should be heavier." http://www.ettu.org/ettuMag.php |
Posted By: beeray1
Date Posted: 09/04/2008 at 9:48pm
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@smily cancer: I just have a problem with that last thing you said.. I dont remember anywhere in my first post me stating some wild claim or anything.. I believe i started the post with "I heard...." and then "has anyone heard anything about this?" implying that i didn't really know much, and would appreciate people to share their knowlege on the subject, since obviously many people have some.
I wasn't starting off with a whole "down with sharara" blind exclamation without knowing the other sides of things. That's what this forum is for- sharing information with eachother in a respectful manner. Obviously this whole deal bothers everyone whether its in the works or a premature discussion- it's still a big possibility with negative effects on players and positive effects that lead to negative effects on the tv screen. Which is more important? Sure, we can make it slower to be easy to watch, but that's at the expense of a game we've come to know and obviously all of us love. but with so many angry players refusing this garbage, its just going to fall down. There is a chance this whole resistance will cause unpopularity in the sport amongst the players, and if there's a big negative attitude towards the sport amongst players, spectators will catch on to that. If TT ever did become more popular, spectators will have more knowledge, and will learn of everything going on in the underbelly of the sport. Sure there are positive aspects out there, but they are heavily outweighed by the bad. Everyone has their opinions.. but there is one big general consensus which is that TT is becoming nothing but 'ping pong' that anyone can become good at now. The speed of the game is one of it's brightest beauties. When someone who is unfamiliar to the sport wathces how fast it goes, they dont say "oh man that's fast and i dont want to watch" They say "man thats fast... unbelieveable!" Sure half the rallies are less than a few exchanges, but the good rallies pay off for every bit of unlikely bore you have.
I also like how a lot of people preach one thing and then practice another.
"yeah watching this is boring, thats no fun it needs to be slower" but i dont see any of those same people complaining about how much fun they have playing. Its not TV that will make TT more popular, its spreading the love via friends and players. Everyone here plays TT for a reason- it's completely addicting and more fun than a lot of sports. Hitting an unreturnable winner makes you feel amazing. so getting more people to play the sport instead of concentrating on getting them to watch is what we need to focus our energy towards. that's what i believe, because i never loved it so much till i held a racket in my hands and learned how to play for the first time. I hope everyone can recognize with what i just said.
thanks.
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Posted By: beeray1
Date Posted: 09/04/2008 at 10:50pm
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Regarding the sponge thickness ban idea: I do agree that it is a problem when kids take on 2.2mm 'fast' rubber and start off developing bad technique. But i don't think the answer is to ban thicker rubber, that's what the majority of competitive players are used to using- thicker rubber. This is after an improved technique. What needs to happen is to get more information and enlightenment out there about why this is a bad choice, not to just get rid of it. Make it known that thinner rubber is better for your development at first.
silly...
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Posted By: checkmilu
Date Posted: 09/05/2008 at 12:53am
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I support 42mm ball if it's heavier, have compress air inside and have the speed spin similar to 40mm ball, the purpose is to make the ball more visible and less unforce errors. Also raise the net 1-2cm would be good to prolong the rally so the players have to use more top spin rather than smash ------------- milu |
Posted By: tommyzai
Date Posted: 09/05/2008 at 12:59am
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Oh no . . . more topspin loops!
Fight the conspiracy. Go Hardbat you wimps! ------------- For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected] |
Posted By: Swiff
Date Posted: 09/05/2008 at 1:48am
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LOL how about basketball sized -------------
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Posted By: theman
Date Posted: 09/05/2008 at 2:00am
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i support hardbat!
------------- i lost my racquet Schlager u beast http://www.youtube.com/MDSguy" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/MDSguy |
Posted By: GenomicsKnight
Date Posted: 09/05/2008 at 2:21am
Well said! If the sport popularity is his goal and the main driving force, he/ITTF should take a short moment and evaluate the new changes implemented thus far in last 5 or 10 years and see if they did indeed made TT more popular. Blindly bring up more changes just seems illogical. ------------- CEO, Single Ply Hinoki Club TSP Dynam 10.5mm and other fine 1-ply Kiso Hinoki blades |
Posted By: nicefrog
Date Posted: 09/05/2008 at 3:43am
I have writin a very similar letter to Mr Sharrara myself a couple of days ago, specifically I told him that you only need to take a young kid from your club that may or not keep playing in the next season and give him a bit of attention. Take him aside for a few minutes and teach him the basic way to hit a big curving loop from off the table, it doesn't matter if he only hits one out of 20 on the table. As soon as he gets one to land the adrenalin rush, the feeling of being beyond human power :!), he will never stop trying to have that feeling more and more often.
I wrote how you have to increase the games popularity at the ground level like that rather than with TV. He's quite reasnoble and will reply to an email straight away. He said that was interesting but it's his job description to promote TT at international level and gain sponsorship for big events. But he understands my position as a club player wanting to keep the game how it is because it's good to play, he seems to understand it was better to play on a 38mm ball. He knows all that. But he's been put there to do a job and he's trying to do it the best he can and it seems the goal of getting it on TV and getting sponsorship outweighs the game itself right now. I don't know who's idea it is to exactly hire someone to do that job or why TV is so important to them but that for some reason is the goal. I think the underlying people, the commitee who ever they are have the whole concept of table tennis wrong and have had it wrong for perhaps 20 years. The game itself has more than enough in it to be as popular as they want it but I don't the the TV aspect will really even happen, does it matter? no. Better to be playing than getting fat watching it anyway.
TV is well on the way to being redundant as of 2008 too. It will only be a couple more years and you would be able to set up very high quality streaming broadcasts of any important table tennis tournament over the net, vola you have your table tennis on "TV" everyday. Stick a HD camera in a head band of the players for a race cam view of the action :). But the idea I got about the 42 balls is that it could happen one day but if it does it proabbly wont be while he's around and if it does he's going to send me 1000 40mm balls so it doesn't affect me :)
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Posted By: lecridupongiste
Date Posted: 09/05/2008 at 4:41am
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@SmilyCancer Sharara used exactly the same tactics to bring the 11 points set, the 40mm ball and the speed glue ban : it was just "ideas" you know. No wonder everything he says now is taken seriously : many don't want another of his surprise. |
Posted By: SmilyCancer
Date Posted: 09/05/2008 at 8:27am
Sorry, that wasn't aimed specifically towards you. However, it would've been good to quote Mr. Shahara directly to prevent the huge number of "experts" throwing in their insight.
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Posted By: beeray1
Date Posted: 09/05/2008 at 10:30am
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lol.. thanks for clearing that up.. but i had to say the rest of what i had to say anyway.. and i didnt mean to come off as a jerk like i sometimes do to people when i defend something.. so thanks.
But yes i dont understand why tv is so important. The internet is much more widely used now anyway.. and everytime you see thos popular points on the internet videos... everyone i show it to says... "oh man yeah ive seen that before isnt it great" not "why would i watch TT"
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Posted By: JimT
Date Posted: 09/05/2008 at 11:33am
You guys are forgetting that Internet requires a) having a really good Internet connection (not the case in a vast majority of households even in the North America). With the exception of South Korea, Japan and some European countries, TV will be a prevalent medium for many years still b) knowing what to do with those computers, OS, media players, codecs etc. All you need to do with a TV is to pay some money to buy channels, then turn it on. So again, with the huge majority of spectators, TV is far superior in convenience to Internet streaming c) and finally, more money than TV. You can buy a good TV for under 100 bucks or you can get it for free from a friend who is upgrading, so the hardware cost is almost zero. Electricity costs are lower for TVs, and usually people have TV in their homes anyway. Connection costs are similar - in the US about 50 dollars a month for a good cable package and about the same for a high-speed connection (rates may diifer, of course). For the computer, however, you need to pay some real money (let's say, close to a thousand dollars) because a used or old one won't be able to play your videos. Not to mention, computers are getting obsolete pretty fast - but a TV? you can use the same one for 20 years straight. Certainly you need to spend more of your time for the setup, downloading and installing software, even if you know what to do. Clearly, your money/time/expertise expenses are way higher with Internet video streaming than with TV, and that will hold true for the foreseeable future. You guy are already on the Internet and are using some more or less sophisticated software, so it's harder for you to understand why everyone is not doing the same. Believe me, they don't, and they won't... at least until we are all flying with the jetpacks on our butts and are implanted with web interface in a hospital when we are born. ------------- Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
Posted By: TT_Freak
Date Posted: 09/05/2008 at 11:55am
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You don't change a winning formula. And simply, table tennis as it is now is not a winning formula. Repetition whilst expecting different results is insanity. We want more public exposure, more dollars spent, more marketable athletes, more overall mainstream presence. We will keep changing the sport until the corporate bigwigs attend the big tournaments, until we get millionaires in the pro ranks, until pros outside the top 100 can do more than just get by.
------------- Violin F1 Actor 10g at 3 and 9 10g at 12 20g at the end of handle |
Posted By: beeray1
Date Posted: 09/05/2008 at 2:47pm
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thanks JimT- i didn't think of it like that.. I guess i was centering my attention towards the stereotypical american teenager.. who sterotypically knows what needs to be known about computers.. i left out the rest of the world... even i cant watch things at home because my internet and computer sucks... writing this right now i am in the middle of my college's computer lab. I have to do all my computer work at school.. so i guess you're right about that. But i still think Getting people to play first will popularize our sport more. TV isn't the whole answer.. it comes in time. But changing the game completely at the expense of TV just isnt the way i dont think. Either way, it's a long process with results coming down the road. TT will have its day, but I dont think changing the game to make it slower and "more exciting" (haha) will solve our problems at all. It will make the game less fun to play.. and all for the purpose of making it a spectator sport. Why does it need to be so popular and on tv anyway? What is the ultimate goal in mind? i dont really see an ultimate goal.. except more money. Thats all anything is ever about anymore is more money. However, i guess please enlighten me to a different reason.
thanks
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Posted By: dauntless
Date Posted: 09/05/2008 at 3:00pm
Not that I am an expert, but I was sure what you are referring to was the 44mm ball, the 42mm ball is not commercially available --> I could be wrong, just thought 44mm has following in Japan, love to know more about 42mm and whether or not I can get some -- see if I can sneak one into a game with my training partners ------------- 1. BTY Primorac, Nittaku H3N, T64 2. BTY Primorac, H3N, Mendo MP http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56416 - Feedback |
Posted By: JimT
Date Posted: 09/05/2008 at 3:06pm
It may be not all about money, but usually money and popularity and TV ratings all go hand in hand. As for why we need it... well, I have resumed playing TT just about a year ago, and I went to more than a dozen tournaments, and I keep seeing same people. Do you know how many USATT-registered players are there in Massachusetts? Less than 200! There are about 6-7 active clubs, each with 10-15 active members (I am not talking about non-USATT very amateurish guys and girls who come there just to kick the ball a little since their basement is now occupied by a second refrigerator instead of a TT table). We don't have coaches, we suffer from bad equipment, from poorly lit gyms, from having to drive an hour just to get to the club, from absence of leagues, etc etc. Massachusetts' population is about 10 mln people. In Germany with population of about 85 mln there are 11,000 clubs and 600,000 registered DTTL members... that means that TT-club density in Germany is about 200 (two hundred!) times higher... and TT-player density is 300 times higher. I am not saying we can reach that - Germans had a long running TT club tradition so that kind of thing cannot be done fast... but if we could increase the ratio from 1/200 to at least 1/20 that would be a huge breakthrough in the US. ------------- Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
Posted By: dauntless
Date Posted: 09/05/2008 at 3:29pm
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Flame target ahead: I am going out on a limb here, but I played with 38mm ball back in the day, 21 points games-- never speed glued though. It was fun but... I enjoy the sport more now BECAUSE of the 11 point matches, because the ball is a little slower, and because the playing field is maybe a little more level and perhaps a fair bit more safe healthwise (don't flame me too hard on this next statement) because of the elimination of speed glue. I never had the benefits of speed glue, so I know I am ignorant in that respect. Even smoking cigarettes has some benefits (nicotine increases concentration, suppresses appetite, much like caffeine), but everyone knows that the negative of smoking outweighs the positive. At first I was like, "what was wrong with the old ball size?", "what was wrong with my disguised serves? they worked just FINE!", "11 points? really?" But now it just is a part of the game. So maybe I am the only one, but I actually like the changes and it has not been remarkably hard to transition to the new rules. Rules change in every sport, just like laws change in every society. So unless you are going to get involved in some sort of para-political movement to reject any rule changes, it sort of means that you (read: you, me, everyone) will just have to adjust to the changes. There may be some positives to a potential increase in ball size, I wonder what they could be? Light up your flamethrowers! ------------- 1. BTY Primorac, Nittaku H3N, T64 2. BTY Primorac, H3N, Mendo MP http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56416 - Feedback |
Posted By: nicefrog
Date Posted: 09/05/2008 at 4:45pm
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11 point games I prefer too, It favours the player more willing to attack on the first 3 points and that's me. 40mm ball forget it :) ------------- |
Posted By: poor_newb
Date Posted: 09/05/2008 at 11:14pm
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the changes are only going to make the chinese dominate even more because they have the most players and can adapt the fastest, the rest of the world would be too slow to adopt to a new game because table tennis anywhere else is just not as popular than china |
Posted By: tonovector
Date Posted: 09/06/2008 at 10:32am
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If Sharara's point is to slow the game down, wouldn�t it be easier just to set maximum allowable sponge thickness to 2.2 mm? It would be less traumatic, and easily enforceable. All these other rule changes in quick succession wreak havoc with our game... The 40 mm ball and the 11 point game required a lot of adaptation, and now it is OK. Now the glue and frictionless LP ban... they should leave the game as it is for the next 5 years at least... let�s vote to put a 5-year moratorium on rule changes!!! ------------- Darker 5P-2A FH BTY Tenergy 05 BH BTY Solcion |
Posted By: beeray1
Date Posted: 09/06/2008 at 11:49am
| yeah im in agreeance because how many changes are we supposed to adapt to in such a short time? why would you change the ball size, and then less than 10 years later change it again after already taking away speed in a game. Hopefully this glue ban will make it slow enough for their liking to leave the ball and net alone for now. We havent really seen too much of the glue ban and so i think if it settles in, maybe they will just leave the other stuff alone... atleast thats what they should do for now. Why try to tack on other changes to slow down the game when you havent even seen what your other changes have done yet??? nonsense.. |